Formula 1

[Mickey]

Ferrari got another 1-2 last night at Monza, there 8th for the season.
Even though this time it was Barrichello 1st, with Schumacher 2nd.

Can anyone beat the Ferrari's?
Does anyone think that with Michael Schumacher driving in a Ferrari that anyone else will win a championship?

How do you think Webber will go next year?

[Deaks]

At least Ferrari gave the rest of the field a chance by starting Rubens on inters and making Michael spin. But still they were too damn quick. Im not a Ferrari fan, but credit where credits due, they reeled the field in from a long way back and then cruised the last part of the race in formation.

First answer: i hope so but doubt it this year.
Second answer: Doubt it again.

Hopefully Webber will be in the hunt by 2006 when Mr Schumacher has retired.

[DRMAT]

YAY!! That was an awesome race to watch! I saw Rubens on the grid with inters and thought "wtf are they thinking!" They worked great for a lap, 7s lead in one lap has to be some kind of record!
I just loved them running through the top 4 that 'could' win the race and totally discounting Michael.... til he pulled in the 28s he was behind and passed and left them all behind! If it had been anyone else but Rubens at the front he would have passed them as well! Great to watch some vintage Schuey! Would have been a very boring race if the Ferraris hadn't been handicapped!

So: No and no! If the other teams could get some reliability happening they'd do themselves a huge favour. Ferrari haven't had a mechanical failure for about 2 years now... i think the last one was a fuel pickup problem Rubens had at Brazil last year?

Mat :shock:

[Az]

was that Toyota I saw ending their chances once again with an engine failure in qualifying... my97hybrid style!

[markmcrs]

I think Michael spun out on purpose...
It's all become to easy for him, he has to invent ways to make it a challenge.
He's going to start the next GP in reverse.
/ end sarcasm

I watch the first half of the race and without michael at the front it was actually an interesting battle.
There's not doubt he's a great racer, but I'd have alot more respect for him if he did what Rossi has done in MotoGP and that is to walk away from a virtually guaranteed championship victory and join an average team.
I didn't watch much motorbike racing, until this year.
Now I hate missing a round.
Seeing Rossi beat rivals on better bikes is amazing.
Imagine Michael joined BAR or Jaguar for example and got them to the front of the field within 2 years. How good would that be to watch.

mark.

[Mickey]

That would be awesome to watch.
But for some reason I don't think he will.
He loves winning too much.

On another note, No more Jag next year :shock:

[DRMAT]

Tune in for Shanghai... Schuey's going to race in a wheely bin! And still win! hehehe If you could put him in a slower car that was still reliable it would be interesting at least.... not many of the others have the reliability that you should expect from the pinnicle of motorsport. The amount of trouble McLaren have with engines is disgusting.
Jag is no big surprise, they were Ford before they were Jag now just going back.

Mat :shock:

[Mickey]

Are they going back to Ford?
I know there is another major sponser, but I didn't think it was Ford.
Oh well.

[doofus]

Hi all, im new to this forum, but ive been a big RS fan for a while now. Ive finally joined, and im quiet happy about that :)

Well as you all know, M.Schumacher and Ferrari broke all records in 2002 and 2003. This being said, I dont think they had much to acheive this year, or prove to the world what else they can do. M.Schumacher already had all the records broken, so i guess this year was a "have fun, who cares" sorta season and i think thats whats motivated M.Shumacher even more. Plus M.S just loves winning :/ Or so he says lol :roll:
By the way markmcrs, not bagging you out but back in 1996 Michael did just that, he went from Benetton to Ferrari in hope of "changing" Ferrari back to their winning ways. He failed in 1996, but came close. 1997 again came close, but was DQ last race of the season. Then 1998-1999 Mclaren blitzed the whole F1 paddock.
So i guess, this is all just a Ferrari payback onslaught and i say good on em.
Lets just hope to see Webber up there next season! :D. Love that guy

- oli
P.S - Yeah im pretty sure they're going back to the old Ford livary.

[BADWGN]

It was good as 2 watch that race, i stayed up latye as 2 watch it. Michael didnt spin on purpose - its a fact his tyres dont warm up straight away, specially in the wet.

He owned, and he could have owned Barachello (spelling?) if i rem rightly 5 laps to go, and he was on his ass.

at one time in the race, he set the record lap, and was doin the lap second(s) faster than any other driver - thats skillz, or 1 damn fast car. he could have done barachello easy. *IMHO* good on him for letting barachello win tho, good sport, Plus Michael cant win anything else.

[RSKY]

It would be good to see michael go back to an average team and help them climb the ranks, the only diff with him and rossi is, rossi didn't encounter the same reliability issues as michael would... i don't think michael wants to see too many dnf's to his name

[watto]

Alot has to do with what we are all saying the reliability of all the other cars. Ferrari has only had 1 or 2 mechanical failures in the past 3 years, cant say that for the rest of the teams. MS has proved himself as doofus said going from the Benneton Ford to the Ferrari and spent two years in a shit car still mixing it up with a far superior Maclaren. I think MS has got absolutely nothing left to prove :wink: the only thing that I would have like to see was a Senna Vs MS both in there prime :cry:

[DRMAT]

Are they going back to Ford?
I know there is another major sponser, but I didn't think it was Ford.
Oh well.

I'm pretty sure Ford own Jaguar don't they from memory? And yeah like Doofus said he's more than paid his dues..... although he did have a couple of records to break this year, most world champs, most race wins in a season, further increase most career wins, poles, and fastest laps. I'm pretty sure Barichello got overall fastest lap from Monza though... but Schuey could have eaten him up.

Mat :shock:

[Deaks]

Now im not dissmissing MS, as yes he is the best driver in F1, but when you know who's going to win a race, it becomes rather boring, bit like watching the table tennis finals at the olympics.

Why dont the FIA do something to bring the field back together? Ala V8supercars? The V8's havent been this competative in years (yes i know Mat, you're still crying about HRT not dominating anymore) and the crowd numbers show it. But then again F1 is just about $$$$$$

[watto]

Bring back wide cars, big slicks and less down force. This will enable more passing ie more entertaning races ala CART a few years back :wink:

[doofus]

Lol last year was a sort of crazy year for Ferrari, with the FIA changing regulations just to slow down Ferrari because of their domination in 2002. I guess Ferrari got the better of everyone this year.
But we're yet to find out what they have up their sleeves next season!
To me, after watching the Laguna Seka(spelling :() CART race last night...i got tired of it after 5 minutes. Personally i'd rather watch cars that are able to over take other cars quickly and not just sit behind each other lap after lap hoping someone will crash. As in v8's, it gets boring and some what repetitive. Id rather watch the endurance races rather then normal races. v8s just dont cut it for me anymore :/

[DRMAT]

I haven't mentioned the V8s for months! To be honest i've hardly watched them this year as i don't find them as interesting as they used to be. No crying for HRT although they've had their fair share of bad luck (ala sunday!) Skaifeys made more mistakes this year than in his entire career.... but its also his first time running a team.... anyway i digress.
I don't think what avesco etc have done with the v8s is a good thing, on one hand they ant parity but on the other they discourage the smallest bit of rubbing when racing which stops anyone passing... there is bugger all passing really in the v8s if you think about it.
Possibly a better way of working it in F1 rather than hobbling the entire category would be to use "success ballast" like they do in Procar where if you win you get an extra 10kgs on your car the next race...doesn't sound like much but in a F1 car 10kgs is up to 0.3s per lap at some tracks. If they hobble all the cars back then we might as well watch Indy...where's the difference, they want to make the F1s run V8s, wide tyres and less downforce. Its supposed to be the pinnicle of motorsport so let them keep developing i say, yes modify it slightly to encourage more passing with slicks or something but don't change anything big.

Mat :shock:

[watto]

doofus I said CART a few years ago now its just crap. Ballast will never work in a catergory like that so much chassis balance will be altered due t the variations in weight from week to week. I know its the pinnicle of racing, our cars have much or all to thank from racing in the past but the car manufactures have enough money to deveope without having to participate in racing. Therefore if they want more people watching leading to more people seeing sponsorship they must have a rethink to make EVERY race not just the odd one awesome to watch. In saying that just because it is a little predictable it still wont make me miss a race

[goq11k]

great to see ambrose win at Sandown,

Webber will not be a force, too much pressure and the other drivers will be keen to improve next year as well,

dont Minardi run the same Ferrari setup, yet can never replicate the Ferrari domination, hhmmmmm........

[Deaks]

Yes it was great to see Ambrose win, he was in a class of his own on the weekend.

I beg to differ about Webber, i think he will be a force, as he'll have a decent car under his butt, and it will spur him on.

No Minardi dont have Ferrari engines, thats Sauber that have similar motors. Remember its not all about the motor, chassis setup, aerodynamics and a multitude of things make up a great race car.

[Mickey]

I am not going to comment on Sandown. :cry:

As for Webber next year, I think he will be much better than this year, And hopefully we will see him in the top 3 a few times.

I thourght that there are going to be changes next year to F1 to cut the costs. :?

[DRMAT]

That is part of what the changes are about, like making engines last for a whole weekend (they were thinking of making have to last for two races!), letting smaller teams buy bits of bigger teams etc. I'd hate to see it turned into a parity category though.
Sauber get Ferrari's engines in the previous years spec from memory... which it partly why you rarely see a Sauber hold up a Ferrari :lol:
Webber will be good, he already has the speed and technical knowledge to setup and drive the car fast.... he just needs a faster and more reliable car.

Mat :shock:

[Deaks]

Whats the matter Mickey? Come on, let it all out.

1,2,3. Was great hearing the crowd screaming that out.

[DRMAT]

Ballast will never work in a catergory like that so much chassis balance will be altered due t the variations in weight from week to week.

I think it will.... it will always be put in the middle of the car so it isn't going to have a huge effect on chassis balance, thats why the driver, fuel and engine are as close to the centre as possible.... they'd also mount it on the floor so it'd be basically on the ground. If they were as fickle as you're making out then they'd become undrivable between a full tank and an empty one. All of the teams already have ballast anyway to make the minimum weight and they distribute it where they have to to maintain the characteristics they need.

Mat :shock:

[paddo]

Whats the matter Mickey? Come on, let it all out.

1,2,3. Was great hearing the crowd screaming that out.

hahaha booyah!
ford rocked the kasbah on sunday!
I know you shouldnt gloat... but damn it was funny... I was so close to fits of laughter when bright nearly took murphy out!!! just thinking about how murph would've gone off at bright back in the pits after the race!

[doofus]

The ballast idea would work except that just really isnt fair on ferrari. They put in a heap of work into their cars, only to have them slowed down the next race? Personally, i think if they incorporate a ballast idea into formula1, some big names will eventually quit formula1.
You probably heard the commentators saying how next year, all the cars will be running smaller rear wings at every race next season? Well that being used next year should see more spice in the racing. I say small changes like that will slow down ferrari, as it did last season.

Besides, Mclaren have caught up dramatically at the later part of this season..only to be brought down with reliability problems. If they overcome that issue during the winter break..we'll have another 1999 or better yet 2003 tussle on our hands! And dont kick webber out just yet..hes still got some more to learn. Heck, he even got his jaguar to 2nd in qualifying this year...

As for Sauber using ferrari spec engines and gearboxes..that is true. This year they are using the exact same spec engines and what not as ferrari are. Just dont think Sauber know what their doing in the aerodynamics department :/

[watto]

Yes that is true that they use weights already, tungston I think but in order to use ballast the teams will have to widen their parameters. It will just make it a bigger cost to the small teams as well and therefore may widen the gap even more. Money equals speed thats why you see the best teams up the front with the best drivers.

[DRMAT]

Money doesn't ALWAYS equal speed.... Toyota are actually the richest team in the paddock and they aren't doing anything.
I realise that you can look at it from the point of view that it isn't fair on Ferrari cos they put the work in.... i agree as well but they are trying ot change the whole category around Ferrari as well. If you slow them down by that bit after they win a race then it means they have to fight harder the next race and someone else may win, so the success ballast goes to them.... so it doesn't favour anyone in particular. If they change all the rules again it means even more money is spent cos they all have to go back to the drawing board to refine their aero package etc. to get the best out of that again, they were also saying Sunday night that if they bring in the two race engine rule then BMW will basically throw out their current engine because it just wasn't built to do two full race meetings which equals millions of dollars of work there. If you keep shifting the bar then the smaller teams will never catch up because they just don't have the resources to keep changing and refining their package. If you left it alone for a couple of years without some changes they might actually keep up!

Mat :shock:

[Mickey]

Whats the matter Mickey? Come on, let it all out.

1,2,3. Was great hearing the crowd screaming that out.


I'll give Ford Sandown, but we will have you guys at Bathurst :twisted:

Anyway back on topic :roll:

Matt I agree if the FIA change the rules for the car and teams each year then how are the smaller teams going to keep up?
It would cost a fortune to change an engine or an aero package.

But at the same time they are trying to keep crowds, but trying to bring the cars closer together. If they don't change the rules, then Ferrari will be winning by an even bigger margin.

[DRMAT]

I dunno about that.. if you keep the goal posts where they are now then i think the other teams would catch up. We've already seen that Williams and moreso McLaren have enough speed some of the time, just not reliability... but reliability will come. It's harder to stay at the top once you are there because if you have a great car there isn't as much you can do to improve it whereas if you are behind then there's always more you can do.

Mat :shock:

[doofus]

If they change all the rules again it means even more money is spent cos they all have to go back to the drawing board to refine their aero package etc.


Fair statement, but ferrari and a whole heap of other teams have already gone back to the drawing board after the new regulations. Ferrari had probably most of their 2005 challenger completed only to have the regulations changed for next season. Im pretty sure its happened to alot of the other teams aswell.

Besides, if you think about it..say you're a team like Mclaren or BAR. Money wouldnt matter to have more changes and try and get ur car faster while not breaking any rules. I personally think the teams enjoy new changes. Thats a better way of making you're car faster/safer in my opinion.

- Oli

[scotty_w2]

Interesting that not one person has made mention of the tactics and race strategy! I think this is something sorely lacking in most (if not all) of the other teams... sometimes you sit there thinking "Hmmm Schuey is in 6th and only 20 laps to go" nad then within three laps he is in first.

Example: French GP earlier this season - Ross Brawn (Ferrari) brought Schumacher in for a 4th pit stop (four!!!!) and he STILL won. Reason was that they worked out that the time lost in coming in for new tyres would be recovered by his faster lap times and being able to drive in clear air... 4 pit stops and he still won.

I think that the tactics like this can be almost as important. Look at when Barrichello started on intermediates last weekend - a 7 second lead in one lap! Had the track stayed a little damp it would have paid off remarkable - even so they didn't do too badly :)

So it will be interesting to see Webber at Williams with a decent strategy... only question is whether he will be the #1 driver or not.

[watto]

I dont think you will see the #1 driver mentality if Jenson Button goes to Williams. Havent had a "proper" #1 for yonks, think its better that way. Mark Webber has his head screwed on right and that makes it easier for him to communicate with his engineers. This along with his talent will make him Aust. next F1 world champoin :wink:

[doofus]

Example: French GP earlier this season - Ross Brawn (Ferrari) brought Schumacher in for a 4th pit stop (four!!!!) and he STILL won. Reason was that they worked out that the time lost in coming in for new tyres would be recovered by his faster lap times and being able to drive in clear air... 4 pit stops and he still won.


This with some ultra quick in/out laps by shchuey. Not trying to be biased, but shchuey, with the amount of talent, confidence and experience he has, has the ability to do those sort of things, I doubt Mclaren or BMW (in their prime stages) can afford to take those chances. I guess thats what makes Ferrari so successful. Reliability, and drivers to do the work on the black stuff. Although i must say..when Rubens needs to step up, he hasnt. He's a great driver, but by far not amongst the best in the F1 paddock in terms of consistency.

I enjoy watching webber race clearly because he knows what hes doing. He knows hes got a slower, more unreliable, more unstable car under him, yet he tries his hardest he can. I think thats why, by some, he's hailed as the next world champ. I see another M.Schumacher when i watch webber. Oh and its good to see a Aussie up there in the ranks :D