Why dyno figures dont mean shit

[evade]

For those who sit there worried about having certain dyno figures--DONT

I got a power run done on Saturday and gave:

177kw ATW :shock:
Yes that is all :D

Funny thing is, the car weighs close to 1400kg and runs 11.5 @ 117mph with a soft 1.74 60ft. :? :D

Also consider this,
The car had 251kw ATW in manual form and ran 12.6 @ 114mph.
Since then the car has increased about 20kw due to more boost and extra timing. Also the car has been converted to high stall auto as most of you know.
So where did the performance improvement come from?

Torque multiplication :D
If you can get a heap of midrange and get it to hold all the way to redline, thats where you get performance.

The dyno graph made 170kw at 94kph and held to 177kw at 164kph.
So basically it has the same power from 4000rpm to 7500rpm. (graph looks like a table :D )

Ignore impressive dyno figures as the non impressive dyno figures sometimes equate to a quicker car.
I have seen plenty of 300+kw ATW cars that struggle to enter 11s (mainly Nissans)
Run the car down the strip to tell the truth 8)

[Karupt]

Evade,

you would be losing a lot of power thru the automatic gearbox, ie it would display a lot lower, just as awd cars display a lot lower than rwd cars.. however yes, your car is proof alone that dyno's dont mean all that much :)

[goq11k]

what was the max torque, and was it a similar 'table like figure' as the kw's, lets be honest, no torque and you have no 'pull' power, especiall with a car that really isnt that light (1400 kgs), and only a 2.5 litre engine.

[Nathan|RST|]

Torque and Power are directly related.

power = (torque x RPM)/constant

torque is the force and power is a measure of the amount of work or the amount of energy in a certain time frame.

So if you have constant torque you get a liner graph over the rev range.

To get a flat power graph, the amount of torque needs to be dropping. So it seems something weird is going on.

[Az]

my experience with dyno's is similar to evade.....

on a dyno day with WRX club (4 years ago now), my car pushed out 114kw ATW.

a stock std WRX ran 114, and another ran 117kw ATW.

tractive effort at the wheels was a different story though.

mine peaked at roughly 6200N tractive effort

the WRX with the highest power on the day, 254kw ATW, only pushed out 6000N tractive effort.


:roll: :shock:

you cant compare cars according to dyno figures.

[Nathan|RST|]

Probably just autos to manuals.

I'm guessing it is to do with the slip in the auto.

[evade]

what was the max torque, and was it a similar 'table like figure' as the kw's, lets be honest, no torque and you have no 'pull' power, especiall with a car that really isnt that light (1400 kgs), and only a 2.5 litre engine.

Its actually only a 2.2.

[ox!gen]

Dyno figures mean everything imho. as long as they come from the same dyno. I'd rather drive a car with 300kwatw than one with 170 anyday, even if the one with 170 is quicker down the strip thanks to greater torque, the 300kw one will feel faster, and it will be faster in a roll on or on the track, it just won't accelerate so quickly if it's power is peakier and it takes it time to get on boost.

Ets are all well and good, but I'd prefer a car that can do more than use an auto and enormous low down torque to shave 2 seconds off a time, when one with a lot more power will be more fun more of the time.

[markmcrs]

I can see this degrading into a flaming session, but...
First of all, I agree with you evade.
And ox ! gen....that was good for a laugh.
You clearly haven't had much experience with dyno's and the 1/4 mile.
So you'd rather have a car that 'feels faster' with a pretty dyno graph reading of 300kw's than have a car that is 2 seconds quicker down the 1/4 but only has 170kw's.
I'd rather be the one with 170 and a smug grin on my face after blowing your doors off.

[paddo]

I'd rather be the one with 170 and a smug grin on my face after blowing your doors off.

HAHAHAA ROFL

ox ! gen - you kinda put your foot in it, displaying to all that you have littel or no idea about driveable cars... (sorry mark... *fuels up the flamethrower*)
a car with 300 peaky kw atw is gonna be a biatch to drive, and if its around twisties and stuff, you're gonna need to be wringing the fk out of it to get it to go anywhere.
also if its got that much power my thoughts are big turbo, big lag.

[Al]

ox!gen gets the RSLC award for missing the point by the greatest distance for 2004.

[paddo]

hahaha very funny jake ox!gen = ox ! gen

[Deaks]

Ahh dynos, what great pieces of shite they can be, but also great for what they were intended. Tuning tools, not bragging rights...

[ox!gen]

So you'd rather have a car that 'feels faster' with a pretty dyno graph reading of 300kw's than have a car that is 2 seconds quicker down the 1/4 but only has 170kw's.

exactly! The car with 300kwatw, roll on at 100k/h is going to shove you in the back a frigging lot harder than one with 170kw plain and simple.


you clearly haven't had much experience with dyno's and the 1/4 mile.

Nice assumption there :/
Just because I've got 3 posts doesn't mean I don't have experience in the real world.

I drive a VR4 cordia with 175kw at the front wheels, I know what a 400hp turbo on a 2litre motor drives like, I know it feels like when it comes on boost at wheelspins at 120 and I love it! and yes, I do get beaten by grannies in their auto commies off the line and I don't care one bit.



oxHARRDgen gets the RSLC award for missing the point by the greatest distance for 2004.
all I was trying to say it that it's more important to me that a car be fun to drive than be able to go fast between two gates.

sosumi.

[paddo]

sosumi.

ok... send your name and address and I'll get proceedings started... shall we say an even $10,000? im easy if you are...
btw... if you have a cordia, why are you on a subaru liberty RS turbo forum...? its a little specific isnt it?

oh, 1 other thing... if you hit full boost in 3rd going around a corner, what is the probability of you becoming a statistic?

[ox!gen]

A friend who used to own an RS sent me the link to this thread. I thought perhaps I might dare to make conversation and share an opinion.

if you hit full boost in 3rd going around a corner, what is the probability of you becoming a statistic?
It just induces a bit of understeer. no different to any other gear, it's not going to kill me. *waits for smartass remark

[Deaks]

Your clearly missing the point, its the Torque that shoves you in the back off the line, and by the time you spool your cordia up and get your 175kws the Corolla 1.8ltr with Gramps driving has whooped you.

Probabilty id say about 100%....

[ox!gen]

yeah of course, I said that was true myself.

I think it's more fun being able to accelerate hard at over 100 rather than off the line, that's all.

[Deaks]

And what makes you think you'll even be able to out accellerate him anyway? Over or under 100ks?

Seeing as we are all responsible drivers here, we just get to the speed limit bloody quick ;-)

[ox!gen]

I never said I wanted to out accelerate anyone, I just said it's fun to be able to accelerate hard at higher speed.

]quote]Seeing as we are all responsible drivers here, we just get to the speed limit bloody quick [/quote]
quicker than me :p

[Joel|RSLC|]

I never said I wanted to out accelerate anyone, I just said it's fun to be able to accelerate hard at higher speed.

where can you use such a car? and whats the point of buying one....

[ox!gen]

you can't use it in this nanny state we live in anwhere other than the racetrack.

[Joel|RSLC|]

and whats the point of buying one....

[ox!gen]

unless you're prepared to risk your licence to enjoy it or take it to a track, there isn't much point at all.

[Mark|RST|]

Hi All, this is what a dyno is really used for...........TUNING!
I am lucky enough to have my best mate own his own Tuning shop with a 4WD Dyno. :D
I've had my car run and tuned only on this dyno.
Runs 2 and 3 were done using a bleed valve setup for boost control and the latest was using a AVCR.
My car has probably spent the good part of 10 or more hours on the dyno over the last 2 yrs of ownership. Checking new mods and always checking mixtures before track days.
And the last run was done after my engine rebuild too.
http://img5.exs.cx/img5/2107/RST5554runs.jpg

Cheers Mark

[bosc0]

hahaha very funny jake oxHARRDgen = ox ! gen

ehhh! :?

Everyone has their own right to an opinion, why does everyone on here always have to be right? :roll:

s o m e t h i n g t o p r o v e ?

[DRMAT]

why does everyone on here always have to be right? :roll:


Yeah that's my gig!! Get your own! :lol:

Mat :shock:

[ox!gen]

Just to add some fuel to the fire.
I'd like to thank Deaks and bosco for being the only guys in this thread who're behaving somewhat like adults.

Al_RS_22A and Paddo, seriously, find a better way to get off than name calling on the interweb.

To answer your question Deaks, I never said I could, but since you ask, I DO think I very well could out accelerate evade on the highway because my car has the same power at the wheels about 400kg less lard, and less drag. wouldn't even be a competition. to 100 would be a different story of course, but in the end, who gives a shit either way?

[ital]

http://www.screenpictures.com/cards/chillpill.jpg

[Billsy]

Just to add some fuel to the fire.
I'd like to thank Deaks and bosco for being the only guys in this thread who're behaving somewhat like adults.

Al_RS_22A and Paddo, you dickheds. seriously, find a better way to get off than name calling on the interweb.



me thinks you threw yourself onto the fire still holding the jerry :shock:

oxy. you have to be more cautious bout what you say here sometimes, some people are very dedicated to their opinions. especially, wags vs sedans (go the wagons), twins vs single, auto/manual and semi understood topics such as these.

[ox!gen]

PMSL

[Raz]

wow my friend...now that's a claim...I WANT to see that.
Evade's weapon actually has some 80 odd kw's more than you. The point of his orig post was to point out the vagaries of max power figures in dyno tuning. His time cards prove that he is running well over 200 kw atw...comparing his times against several other fast Subarus (read RIGLOI) only confirms that he has this sort of power.
So in saying that...i will be a very willing spectator.
Daring to make comment on this forum is all and well but pls dont get upset if we members shoot you down over incorrect or over the top claims...such as you have made here.
Al was quite right in his post about "missing the point", and that most of here know that dyno power figures are only a guide and can be WAY out in accuracy. So your claim of 175kw could really only be 110 or 250...see my point?!
Enough from me now on this except suffice to say that if I owned a "High Performance" car and was being beaten off the line by grannies in commo's...then Id be sellin the F*@ker!....quick!!!

[ox!gen]

of course. I don't mind being shot down over rubbish claims, I do mind the petty name calling that seems to be the norm that goes with it.

when Jakes Performance (that guy is a tuning god i swear) says you're making 175kwatw, and you've got 450cc injectors that can't flow anything more, you've got 175atw, probably more. fwd will always lose off the line, I can be beaten by stock VL auto commodores, but when I actually get grip over 120 (racetrack of course) I fly straight past. that's why it's fun ;)

http://img50.exs.cx/img50/8476/dyno1.jpg

[RSTurbo]

hey oxy, why dont you drop the vr4 running gear into the cordia aswell and then you'll never have trouble off the line against vl commo's or grannies :wink: :wink:

[paddo]

cost of tyres because you're always spinning the fronts = $800 a year
cost of losing your license because the only place you can get traction is over 120kph = $1200 (if caught in a 60 zone, which no doubt, someone of your intelligence would do)
look on the grandpas face when you fly past him doing 140 in a 60 zone = indifferent... why? coz he wasnt racing you...

now... you tell me...? who's the
see the carefactor of having a car that can get grip over 120 means stuff all to nearly everyperson on here... because we all have grip from go to whoa!

best you crawl back to the spider hole you call home. go and console yourself with your mitsubishi mates, who may actually think your car is cool...
street cred? you have none.

[ox!gen]

I don't give a crap about street cred. I used to drive around on 13" wheels because they looked crapper. which tyres are incidentally very cheap for too ;) I only upgraded because of my apparent traction problems.

do you think I give a shit what the grandpa thinks? do you think I give a shit what the guy in the commodore thinks?
like stuff i do.

As i said in my first post and still maintain. some guys are obsessed with image and times. I prefer to have fun no matter how slow or fast a car is.

[ox!gen]

hey oxy, why dont you drop the vr4 running gear into the cordia aswell and then you'll never have trouble off the line against vl commo's or grannies :wink: :wink:
I've sunk too much into the mitsy already.
I'll upgrade to an RS or prehaps somthing else soon.

[Nathan|RST|]

The point of his orig post was to point out the vagaries of max power figures in dyno tuning.

I would suggest it has more to do with the auto than the dyno. It is possible to produce torque without producing any power. A good analogy is trying to undo a nut, I can apply alot of torque, however unless the nut turns there's no power produced.

Therefore I'm guessing the reason for low power figure is the fact that the autos slip and also a reason why they last.

Dynos are fine, you just can't compare two different dynos, and autos with manuals.

[Al]

.

Al_RS_22A and Paddo, you dickheds. seriously, find a better way to get off than name calling on the interweb.



What name calling? Notice how everytime you type ox!gen it comes up as oxHARRDgen? You might want to ask admin why that is instead of abusing people. Fact is, you did miss the point of the thread. :TD

[cruisEH]

Hey i could adjust the ramp rate and compensation figs to make my N/A seem to produce massive power, or evades turbs produce none.. what does it matter unless you change nothing when doing comparisons on the same dyno?

My kingswood made 165.5 RWKW on gas thru an impco 425 carb with 2psi rectriction @ wide open throttle. What did that prove?? nothing, but when the series 4 RX7 Turbo after me made 149 RWKW with no changes, it made me happy. The reality of it though, is the RX7 would have flogged the arse off my V8 simlpy because of the way it made its power...

Having a dyno queen is useless... look at cars that win HP Heroes... their 1/4 times are abysmal...that twin turbs holden V8 ute is lucky to run an 11, whereas n/a LS1 commodes are doing low 12s without cracking the engine open....

as for the dude with the cordial.... hell, you arent going to impress anyone here. havent you heard power wins bar-room arguments, torque wins races.... =)

PS EVADE... hehe i noticed a guy on the ozpulsar.org forums calls himself evade...hehehe drives a nissan micra hehehe :)

[TassieTT]

I wondered why this thread was going on for so long :shock:

ox!gen is going to lose his NooB tag soon if this bitchin goes on any longer


HEY.... I didn't write that... bloody admin :lol:

ox (!) gen- that will fix ya

[troopa]

PS EVADE... hehe i noticed a guy on the ozpulsar.org forums calls himself evade...hehehe drives a nissan micra hehehe :)

If its the evade I know he is from melbourne and has a little turbo micra ... nice little beast :)



http://aa.wh3rd.net/micra/

[Deaks]

Oxy, have you run your car down the qtr mile? Im not asking for your time, but for your mph, as thats a true indication of your top end. Evades car has run 117mph from memory, good luck keeping up with it ;-)

[goq11k]

of course. I don't mind being shot down over rubbish claims, I do mind the petty name calling that seems to be the norm that goes with it.

when Jakes Performance (that guy is a tuning god i swear) says you're making 175kwatw, and you've got 450cc injectors that can't flow anything more, you've got 175atw, probably more. fwd will always lose off the line, I can be beaten by stock VL auto commodores, but when I actually get grip over 120 (racetrack of course) I fly straight past. that's why it's fun ;)

once again a stock VL turbo has more torque and in auto form are very formidable, I know I used to own one, the RB30 is a very tough engine, too bad holden made it too heavy and f--ked the gear ratios.

[ox!gen]

"Notice how everytime you type ox!gen it comes up as oxHARRDgen?"
perhaps something's changed, but it doesn't do it for me.
my apologies for the misunderstanding if it was the board that messed with your words.


I've only ever gteched my cordia (competing in a local car clubs gtech comp, all standard strip setup with a very accurate gtech), not on a strip, so It's not accurate, but it ran 117.5m/h.

fear my 0.5 :p

Evade would probably beat me, but it wouldn't be by much. and considering my car hasn't cost me more than 10k without the stereo, i'm doing pretty well.

[Al]

Dude, get real, evade would be cruising up the return lane while you were still wheelspinning at the 60ft mark.
I think VR4 into cordia is a good conversion but there's no need to claim it's the fastest on the planet.
First Gunders and now this, what's with Mitsi drivers. ;)

[ox!gen]

I never said it was the fastest off the line, ever.

"Evade would probably beat me, but it wouldn't be by much."
I was refering to a rolling start over 100, on the strip any stock wrx/rs would kill me.

[The Scribe]

seriously, the way some people hard reacted to this thread is shithouse...

ox!gen's cordia is a nice example of a straight, clean, worked cordia, and I can't believe what type of car he drives became an issue for some members:

"best you crawl back to the spider hole you call home. go and console yourself with your mitsubishi mates, who may actually think your car is cool...
street cred? you have none."

I would have thought this forum was a little more open minded to the drivers of other brands of cars who are interested in the RS's we love...

As Bossco said, ppl should be able to air opinions without being chastised...

[Al]

This thread is a dead loss. It was meant to degrade into a pointless dyno debate but has instead just degraded into a pointless argument over nothing.

[Deaks]

I would have thought this forum was a little more open minded to the drivers of other brands of cars who are interested in the RS's we love...


We are, but why come onto an RS forum bragging about a Mitsub? Seriously your just asking for a flame war, and reading through his posts, thats what hes after. Guess what he got? Its all in fun anyway.....

[paddo]

sif any of us car what he thinks...
but when someone in a 2 wheeler reckons he's only 'just' going to be beaten by evade you have to stop and ask youself - how much full of shit is this dic?


Rob: he's your mate...
you know him, he's shot his mouth off... let him deal with it.

[The Scribe]

pfft... dunno the guy from shit paddo... just seen his car on the syndicate forums...
Just sayin what i reckon...

[paddo]

fair nuff...
not that i really give a toss...
as markee said a dyno is a tuning tool. im hoping for a bit over 170 next time i go... ;)

[Deaks]

Im just hoping to register a figure, as really my car has issues with dynos, bit like Evades car really, but thats kinda where the similarities end though(save for both being autos). As long as on the same dyno i get more power/torque than before it doesnt really matter.

[luke max]

http://www.screenpictures.com/cards/chillpill.jpg



:lol: classic :lol:

[m@w8]

Dyno figures mean everything imho. as long as they come from the same dyno. I'd rather drive a car with 300kwatw than one with 170 anyday, even if the one with 170 is quicker down the strip thanks to greater torque, the 300kw one will feel faster, and it will be faster in a roll on or on the track, it just won't accelerate so quickly if it's power is peakier and it takes it time to get on boost.


Torque doesn't have much to do with acceleration at all. Otherwise Mac trucks, turbo diesel Landcruisers, and old 4.1 Cortinas would be rockets...

Standing start acceleration is all about POWER, so a 300kW car, will in fact feel quicker because it IS quicker than a 170kW car, all other things being equal.

At a rough calculation, Evades time of mid 11's would require at least 300kW at the flywheel, so his 170kW atw figure just goes to prove his statement, that Dyno readings don't mean crap. An ET and more importantly terminal speed is the best way to guage a cars power. ET can be effected a bit by your 60ft time, but your terminal speed is an excellent indicator of the power you're making.

[thomas]

Can we organise a strip day somewhere, and oxy can come along! Oh hang on, not off the line, oxy's car isnt designed for performance under 100kms :roll:

This thread has turned to shit, and unfortunatly, i could have been an interesting topic, but ya know i wonder what would happen if i was braggin the gx on a mitsu forum :P

[GANSTA]

So what are you saying m@w8, 4.1 cortina's aren't rocket ships :?: :shock: :D

[paddo]

do it hoomus and send us the link... ;)

[Tank Subie Wagon]

I d like to see a track day to. ( i ll bring the handy cam to catch all the action) not that there will be much. here is a quick thing about the cordia ox!gen theres not really a chance of it getting anywhere near evades.heres a comparison for ya in street form 1992 SR20DET SSS pulsar its got 180Fwkw and its lighter than evades by a fair bit to it did a 12.7, Source (HPI mag and fast fours). so even if u owned that Pulsar that does them times you still be a 1.2 secs off him. but with only 10 grand spent on it and 5 Fwkw down on the pulsar you really got no chance of gettin near evades RS, sorry to bring ya back to earth buddy. also as the pulsar owes that guy like 30,000. just my thoughts on this topic. but this thread has turned into shit. just my opinion on this as it is a forum and all ;)

[Deaks]

Torque doesn't have much to do with acceleration at all


Standing start acceleration is all about POWER

What are you on about? Torque doesnt have much to do with acceleration? To accelerate, you must be able to get the car moving, to get something moving bloody quick requires torque, and bucket loads of it. I know the world evolves around power figures, so you'll all dismiss this, but i wouldnt swap my auto for a manual with the same mods.

I would swap it for Evades though ;-)

[cruisEH]

right..

torque = HP x RPM

so the more torque you have across the entire rev range, the better power youll make, however, an engine with more torque down low will get you off the line and accellerating harder, sooner than an engine with more top end but less mid range torque, unless geared appropriately (hence F1 cars use bulk RPM to make their power)

i know which id rather have in a street car,

There was an article written by Sam and Issi Blumenstein of COME fame, where they compared two engines... the one with the torque through the rev range, but less overall power was quicker every test they did... a flat torque curve will also be better on fuel and much nicer to drive...

but if mr cordia wants a car that does nothing till 4500 rpm then eplodes into wheelspin...good for him. Car will look silly impounded by the plods for "sustained loss of traction" something you couldnt get booked for in a RS unless you were a total nut =)

[Tank Subie Wagon]

here is a site that shows wat a 180Fwkw cordia can do. it got a best time of 13.39... just thought this might stop some of the agro and arguments. just an example of a cordia with a few more KWs than ox!gens and still almost 2 secs slower than evades time.... :P

here is the site, it probly would go a little quiker but traction got the better of it i m thinkin.

http://www.fullboost.com.au/feature_car.php?id=447&p=1

cheers

[Deaks]

Ok just for comparisons sake, i've run a 13.4 @100mph with 138kws atws, and that Cordia has run a 13.39 @111mph with 180kws atws. Ahh tractions a wonderful thing....

[ox!gen]

We are, but why come onto an RS forum bragging about a Mitsub? Seriously your just asking for a flame war, and reading through his posts, thats what hes after. Guess what he got? Its all in fun anyway.....
I never you came here to brag about a mitsubishi, I came her to post a valid point about power outputs, YOU guys dragged my car into it and continually put words in my mouth trying to start a fllame war, and for a time I started doing my best to defuse it.
My car has no grip. It's ETs are slow (13.3) and it's terminal speeds are high (115m/h+) and there's no reason anyone should give a shit about it but me so stop demanding that I explain it.


but when someone in a 2 wheeler reckons he's only 'just' going to be beaten by evade you have to stop and ask youself - how much full of shit is this dic?
I'm the longest standing Mod on Cordiapower, I have the 3rd most powerful cordia on the forum backed up by two dyno sheets, the mechanical package to make it true and terminal speeds suggesting a bloody lot more. Stop calling me a dipshit know nothing idiot and show some respect. I NEVER SAID I COULD BEAT EVADE IN A DRAG RACE. not once, so get ya hand off it and stop saying I did! I said I could possibly beat him by a small margin (if at all) in outright acceleration at higher speeds, and I still think it's true.


^all of that crap is the flame war that YOU GUYS started, not me. I don't give a shit anymore, think what you like bout me and my bs.



on topic:
All I ever wanted to say is al l things being equal a car will 300kw is going to be faster and more fun to drive than one with 170kw. simple as that.

[Deaks]

Ok the flame war was prolly going a little far.

But, i disagree with your comment about power = fun. Well i dont totally disagree, cause a 300kw 200sx would be better than a 170kw 200sx, but...it all comes down to your definition of fun in a car. If your idea of fun involves lots of smoke and not much movement, then yeah you'll have fun with 300kws. Me and most of the guys on this particular forum, enjoy hauling ass off the line, hense our vehicle choice.

Dont take any of it seriously, thats when it becomes spiteful. Treat it as a joke and it all just moves on.

[bosc0]

sorry guys but im almost with ox!gen on this one... you guys have been fairly harsh on him when he has had some valid points and as i said before has a right to his own opinion.

He's not trying to force anypoints on you guys but you are on him. Either way, this a forum and everyone is allowed to have their say without being kicked in the nutz.

I really didnt think the guys on here could sink to the level of some of the other forums around.

Take it easy guys, just cos you read something doesn't mean its 100% accurate. And btw ox!gen..... Al is always right, its a fact so it was a bad move to call him names.

Play nice peoples, i haven't had to write this much in ages :P

[bosc0]

most of the guys on this particular forum, enjoy hauling ass off the line, hense our vehicle choice.


i dont think that is very true deaks..... :?

[Deaks]

Umm ok then.

[ox!gen]

Al started it :p

[PROBLM]

Im not usually one to argue :roll:
But apart from the odd few who have replied more than 5 times.. Who really cares about dyno figures and torque and all that shit. Instead of talking it up the only way to resolve a my cars faster than yours arguement like this is to settle it on the track.. no theoretical "my car has 3 moke kw than you so id SMOOOOOOOKE you" mumbo jumbo.
just my opinion, who agrees?

AnDy

[paddo]

sheesh way to fly off the handle ox!gen...

Im not gonna say who started what... but making a statement that you would only 'just' be beaten by someone who's run a time 1.5 sec faster than yours, down the quarter is asking for trouble..
insulting one of our tech guru's... yep, thats askin for trouble too...
shooting your mouth off when no body knows who you are...? thats 3 strikes buddy... and you wonder why people have a go at you...
I'm sorry jake, I see his valid points, but it was a shoot first, then produce evidence way of going around the situation... and i didnt see this as productive way of doing things

take it with a grain of salt mate...

[Al]

I was wrong once, but I didn't let it happen again. :)

I'm bored with this, can we go back to arguing about twin turbos Vs single now. :lol:
Oh, hang on, that's still going in technical. Gotta go.

[ox!gen]

I'm done arguing about it paddo.
So is everyone else I think.

[SC00BS]

It was an interesting read, some valid points from both sides, but I think it's time to call it quits. Just 1 last point though, if the 2 of you want have a high speed run the only real way to do it would be an airstrip. You wouldn't lose your licence and you could do standing start runs AND 100kph roling starts. You're both Sydney boys aren't you? Shouldn't be too hard to organise.

[Mickey]

Make sure somebody films it if you do it.
It would be a good watch. :D

[SC00BS]

Well if both guys are keen I'll see what I can do. Just give me the word guys :TUP

[Raz]

this thread must set a record for the way it has EXPLODED!!! Jumped 2 whole pages in less than 12 hours!!

[jaskel]

paint it red and you will regain those lost figures ;)

[bosc0]

so its all over then..... time to write it off as a bad debt.

Nice one Chirs for starting a war... hahaha your intentions have not gone un-noticed :P haha
Let us know when u get that underpowered beast out on the track again.....:D

Now to remind you guys why we are all here......















boobies