AVCR VS. EBoost2

[Fergo]

Ok guys, am at a cross roads between the avcr and the eboost 2.
I have been given the impression the avcr has alot more features from reading the apexi and turbosmart websites, but have been lead to believe the avcr is rather time consuming to set up and get the best out of it.

What are your thoughts from the guys who have each model I remember a post not too long ago and evade posted he used the eboost over the apexi in his car.

who else has an eboost what are your thoughts on boths and their features.

[Bazza]

I've got an eboost 1 and it works quite well. Easy to use and to program. It has some nice features like overboost alarms, different gear settings, boost protection, an extra output that could control methanol injection / whatever or input to the ecu, plus a few more features.

I would prefer the Apexi display though.

[grug]

I had the exact same question a while ago.
After toying it up for quite a while I decided to go with neither.

I chose the jaycar kit.
Offers same performance levels and is about 1/3 the price. You dont get the bling display, but you get one that does the job and tells you what you want to know.

[Bazza]

I should've added you can get eboost1's for around $300 these days. Eboost2's cost about $800 and hopefully someone can add what the Jaycar and AVCR's ones are worth as well.

The eboost install was extremely basic and easy as well. What was the Jaycar one like? I don't imagine any would be very difficult.

[hendo]

I picked up a brand new AVC-R on ebay for $400.
Usually the going rate is between 400 - 500 dollars second hand.

It does take a bit of time to set up, but once set up correctly it works very well.
If you set the AVC-R up poorly, then it will work poorly.

For a similar sort of price to an AVC-R, you could also consider a Blitz SBC iD-III. I haven't personally had much experience with them, but apparently they are pretty good.

[Raz]

you could also consider the Gizzmo IBC.

[Fergo]

I had the exact same question a while ago.
After toying it up for quite a while I decided to go with neither.

I chose the jaycar kit.
Offers same performance levels and is about 1/3 the price. You dont get the bling display, but you get one that does the job and tells you what you want to know.

yours was the post I saw, how is the jaycar one by the way what are its features.

Avcr has a good display can it be changed to read in psi like the eboost2, and does it have a anti wastegate creep function like the eboost2 and does the eboost2 have a similiar duty cycle type solenoid.

[grug]

LOL
id love to tell you, but i dont know. It still sittin in its box. My car has been of the road for quite a few weeks, and could be acouple more before its back on.

sorry!

[whiterabbit]

I find that the avcr gives the user a greater spectrum of tunability and that it's very good at how it controls spool up and mid range boost compared to some of it's rivals.

[evade]

If your after the full rice EBC go the AVCr.

If you want a simple to use, rock steady, no frills EBC, go the E Boost.
The after sales service is also unrivalled bein a local product.

If you have a problem with the Apexi, good luck getting it resolved when the supplier blames the distributor, the distributor blames you and so on.

[spacca]

Good timing with the question :tu

I was speaking to Evades tuner today who will be retuning my car in a couple of weeks. He pretty much won't tune my car unless I have a MBC with dual settings at the very least, or a EBC. I currently have a MBC with single setting that does the job, but guess it's time to look for an upgrade.

Keep to comments coming. Looking at e-Boost and AVC-R.

[jm3132]

eboost is good for reasons stated.
but
three little buttons and a tiny number display. frustrating when you dont your way round overly well.

[Fergo]

hey evade seeing as you have used the eboost2 in your car maybe you can shed some light of what kind of features it has as apposed to the avcr. im interested in the eboost2 because of it simplicty factor, but the avcr seems to have alot more features and thus control over what you can make it do.

[05-BROCKY-05]

Hows about the Greddy Profect B??? Anyone heard alot about it. I can get one for around $400, $460 installed (or around) and was told they are fairly good.

[Fergo]

the profec seems ok but lacks alot of features the eboost and avcr has, it does though have a similar feature to adjust wastegate response, sort of like the eboost2's gate pressure function which eliminates wastgate creep, but I like the idea of the avcr's duty cycle solenoid, which means you can tune in how strongly boost comes on. can the eboost do this evade.

[Tank Subie Wagon]

The profect B is not a bad Controller nice an easy to hide away, id go eboost after looking at how easy to use and setup joels is, eboost 1 or 2 would be the go i would think, AVCRs are way to fiddly.

[Fergo]

yeah they are fiddly to set up, but what kind of features does the eboost have compared to the avcr the turbosmart webpage doesnt say too much at all.

[jm3132]

i read in a magazine, ill find it later, a comparison between the two and he said they were both great, but the AVCR did everything the eboost2 did, just better. also said the AVCR had a few more features.

[oversteer]

From what I have investigated recently ;

Best to not so best of whats around....

1 - Eboost (works extremely well and has all features, recommend by many top tuners)
2 - AVCR (works extremely well and has all the features, bit more bling than eboost !)
3 - Blitz (Works well, has most features)
4 - Greedy Profec (latest gen is competent closed loop controller)

The bottom line with good boost control these days is "closed loop control", all above are closed loop with huge configurability and fuzzy logic on some. They can be set-up to give you the same rock solid boost in whatever gear, cold to hot - ambient temp, engine bay temp, up hill down hill, humidity etc etc.

Non closed loop control just can`t be a as stable in all conditions ! The jaycar kit is not closed loop or very configurable.

OS

[spacca]

Damn these things are pricey!
My turbo was only a little more that these controllers!

Whats the big deal, are they really that special? Or is for 'bling'? I have a sh*tty TurboXS MBC that seems to hold boost quite well. What do these do that a MBC doesn't? (I'm sure they do something, but is the price justified??)

Been looking everywhere today and can't find anything under $795 for AVC-R or e-Boost 2.

[JESTER86]

my gizzmo ibc was easy to install and set..... 2 buttons, with just a digital boost display, great basic electronic controller, once setup havent had to touch it since, even with change of mods it will readjsut it to reach your set boost levels....

[Fergo]

hmmm ill find some reviews of the avcr vs eboost and see what I come up with.

[adrianvos]

So which of these controllers allow you to set the boost you want to run in psi or kpn or bar or something. I personally do not like any boost controller that does not let you set the boost you want to run. As far as I know, the AVCR is the only one that allows this. It has some settings to customise the control performance to your car, but after that, you just tell it what boost you want to run rather than setting duty cycles and testing to get the boost you want to run after alot of trial and error. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am just going on the ones I have fiddled with when tuning.

-- Adrian

[Bazza]

The eboost 1 is set the same as injectors... duty cycle type method and you get a scale from 0 - 100 to work with - plus you tell it what boost to start opening the wastegate and the sensitivity etc.

It is a thing I would've preferred being able to say 20 psi and have it figure the rest out - maybe the eboost 2 does this?

To be honest the eboost wasn't as good as I thought it would be - I thought I could say X boost and it would take everything into account including air temperature / density and do everything but its not exactly like that although it seems to have no problem holding boost in any gear so far. I haven't tested it during hot and cold conditions enough yet but it seems like it does make some adjustments so you don't get extra boost when its cold and less boost when its hot (like my 2 stage turbosmart bleed type one did) - what did yours do Evade?

Might be an idea reading the manuals for each before purchasing.

[jm3132]

The eboost 1 is set the same as injectors... duty cycle type method and you get a scale from 0 - 100 to work with - plus you tell it what boost to start opening the wastegate and the sensitivity etc.

It is a thing I would've preferred being able to say 20 psi and have it figure the rest out - maybe the eboost 2 does this?


no, im pretty sure it doesnt

[adrianvos]

This argument has been had before, and as usual I came out looking like the bad guy harassing the cheaper alternative.

There is a big difference between a boost controller that allows you to set duty cycles, and one that allows you to set the actual boost. Using the Haltech as an example of a product I know well.... after 5 minutes of setup time to setup start duty cycles (to give it a duty cycle to start for different boost levels), you can then just tyoe in the boost you want and it runs it. It is fantasitic for tuning, as I can tune 10psi, 12psi, 14psi very accurately and have the new boost setting in a few key strokes. For the end user, it is great, as it eliminates changes in boost levels under different atmospheric conditions (hot vs cold), and load (low gear vs high gear).

Most of the R&D in this type of product is getting the control algorithms right. Doing a duty cycle type product is lieterally half the effort. If you don't go for a boost controller that has the ability to set boost, you might as well go for the Jaycar unit, as it will do the same thing for alot less money. However, a good boost controller that has the ability to set actual boost level is a very different beast to the Jaycar, and is worth spending extra on.

I know alot of people here claim they are the same thing, but I can assure you they are not. Sure you can get the same boost curve under a given set of conditions on both, but which is quicker to change boost, and which will run the same boost regardless of conditions?

-- Adrian

[adrianvos]

Another comment.

Back in 1997 I used the first electronic boost controller I had ever used. It was a HKS EVC I think. It was very small with a simple LCD display with a couple of buttons and a dial. You tuned the dial to adjust the boost. The control was excellent. You set 1.1 bar, and it would run it within 0.05 bar. You set 1.25.... the same. Boost was instant, and with little overshoot.

How far have we come when most boost controllers today require you to set the duty cycle some 10 years later??

-- Adrian

[paddo]

AVCR FTW...

eboost for easy tunability..

avcr for comlex tunability, stability of boost, adaptation to temps, and accuracy of settings.

avcr wins all the time.

finding someone who can tune it to make it win is a different story... good thing that i am one of those people... so mine was always tuned right.

[hendo]

Another comment.

Back in 1997 I used the first electronic boost controller I had ever used. It was a HKS EVC I think. It was very small with a simple LCD display with a couple of buttons and a dial. You tuned the dial to adjust the boost. The control was excellent. You set 1.1 bar, and it would run it within 0.05 bar. You set 1.25.... the same. Boost was instant, and with little overshoot.

How far have we come when most boost controllers today require you to set the duty cycle some 10 years later??

-- AdrianThe EVC III is a good bit of gear. It's so easy to use, and holds stable boost very well.
I don't like the fact that the dial needs calibrating from 'H' to 'L' almost everytime you use it, but apart from that it's great.


avcr for comlex tunability...I agree that some people may find it complex, but the menu's are relatively intuitive and if you've read through the instuctions before you try to tune it then it's pretty straightforward.

[jm3132]

This argument has been had before, and as usual I came out looking like the bad guy harassing the cheaper alternative.

There is a big difference between a boost controller that allows you to set duty cycles, and one that allows you to set the actual boost. Using the Haltech as an example of a product I know well.... after 5 minutes of setup time to setup start duty cycles (to give it a duty cycle to start for different boost levels), you can then just tyoe in the boost you want and it runs it. It is fantasitic for tuning, as I can tune 10psi, 12psi, 14psi very accurately and have the new boost setting in a few key strokes. For the end user, it is great, as it eliminates changes in boost levels under different atmospheric conditions (hot vs cold), and load (low gear vs high gear).

Most of the R&D in this type of product is getting the control algorithms right. Doing a duty cycle type product is lieterally half the effort. If you don't go for a boost controller that has the ability to set boost, you might as well go for the Jaycar unit, as it will do the same thing for alot less money. However, a good boost controller that has the ability to set actual boost level is a very different beast to the Jaycar, and is worth spending extra on.

I know alot of people here claim they are the same thing, but I can assure you they are not. Sure you can get the same boost curve under a given set of conditions on both, but which is quicker to change boost, and which will run the same boost regardless of conditions?

-- Adrian

eboost2 is one of these duty cycle ones isnt it?

[adrianvos]

I believe so. I have used Eboost 1, and it is duty cycle control. I went to tune a car with EVC 2, but the car had problems before I got to tuning. I did have a fiddle with the settings on it, and it appeared very similar to Eboost 1, so I suspect it is also duty cycle type.

-- Adrian

[adrianvos]

The HKS EVC I used 10 years ago was an EVC 1.... or EVC.... the original. It had limitted parameter adjustability, but it did not need it. It provided excellent boost control, and you could change boost level at the spin of a knob in a few seconds without any tuning required at the new boost level.

-- Adrian

[spacca]

How about the HKS EVC 5??
http://www.hksusa.com/products/more.asp?id=1651

I'm not following 100% sorry.
Adrian, as a tuner, which EBC do you reccomend, AVC-R, e-Boost2 or possible the HKS EVC 5?
Are these like ecu's where its better to use a EBC that tuners have more experience with? Or are they pretty easy to work out?

Are you saying that the EBC that allows you to set duty cycles or the EBC that allows you to set the actual boost is better? I'm assuming the better is the one that allows you to set duty cycles, but just want to clarify.

I have to purchase a EBC in the next 7 days so I gotta make a decsion real quick... :rolleyes:

[adrianvos]

I am not recommending any particular unit. I am just recommend the use of a unit that allows you to set the boost level as a pressure rather than as a duty cycle that results in a pressure. I believe the HKS EVC does this (it did years ago in the original version), and the AVCR does this. I think the Blitz, Eboost does not.

Even better..... buy an ECU that has this feature built in. Then you can put your $500 to $1000 into a better ECU and not have to get any boost controller. ECUs with closed loop boost control include Motec, Autronic, Haltech. There may be others.

-- Adrian

[oversteer]

I am told that the eboost 2 is closed loop, so it may be a case like the Greedy profec etc where you set it up mainly by duty cycle....and then also tell it the max boost...and how much to trim dc and warn etc when that boost is reached. They still call this closed loop but it has nothing on the AVCR`s self learning......

OS

[adrianvos]

By definition, closed loop requires that you must have a target setpoint for boost. Ideally that setpoint should be set by the user, but I think that the Eboost may work slightly differently. I think you set a duty cycle, and this gets it to a certain boost level. I think the Eboost then uses whatever boost it got to as the setpoint, and then atempts to keep it there (so you don't get boost drop off up high). This makes a for a nice looking dyno boost graph, but in my opinion, it is much more useful to be able to set the boost. In the Haltech boost control you set up a table of duty cycle vs target boost. This is the duty cycle the unit will run once close to the target boost level. It starts at that boost level, but will immediately start to alter it to get to the target boost level. This way you can purposely induce overboost by setting the dutycyle too high, or under boost by setting it to low, or a flat boost curve by setting it at the duty cycle that runs the boost. Once this table is setup, you can then go to a target boost map (target boost vs RPM, so you can run different boost at different RPM). Whatever boost you put in here is the boost it will try to get to. You can then do corrections for the gear you are in (less boost in lower gears for gearbox reliability/traction), and fit a trim dial to adjust the boost from a dial on the dash. It is not bling, but it works very well. Every time the target boost level changes (from the trim dial or the gear correction or different RPM), it selects a different start duty cycle, but it always alters the duty cycle to get to the target boost..... not some unknown number like in the Eboost.

-- Adrian

[Fergo]

thank you adrian for finally answering what I asked at the begining of the thread, yes the eboost has a duty cycle solenoid for boost control, but in your expert opinion which is well worth it avcr or eboost2 im not interested in all the other ebc's just those two.

[adrianvos]

I would go AVCR.

-- Adrian

[Fergo]

thanks for the advice id say it would be a good choice should I upgrade to a power fc soon as they are the same brand and would be able to work together quite well. the power fc has a boost control function so using the avcr's solenoid etc would be the go.

[oversteer]

There is much discussion on apexi/datalogit forums about map sensor and bcs for the apexi boost control kit vs AVCR.

Apparently they are different items the map and possibly bcs, I have the pin out for the plug on the side of the pfc for aexi bck....you can calibrate the pfc`s sensors with datalogit...so it could be made to work from the a piggyback on a avcr/its sensors(I wanted to do it to give datalogit logs correct map pressures for tuning boost etc, factory RS map sensor is lame).

For the money the PFC boost control kit may be worth a go, 3 bar map sensor and bcs and plug in harness...

No doubt the AVCR is the pinnacle of boost control...so if your willing to spend the money why not, for a average daily driver the pfc+bck(boost control kit) would work just fine !

OS

[Fergo]

so you get the pfc and a bck is that what you are saying if so why not do it you get a good ecu plus ditch the shitty standard boost control.

[adrianvos]

Nothing wrong with the standard boost solenoid. I use it on mine with the Haltech controlling it, and boost control is very good.

-- Adrian

[spacca]

Sorry to deviate, but found a decent priced AVC-R on e-Bay and was wondering if someone could confirm if this is the current model?

Part Number:- 420-A904

http://i18.ebayimg.com/01/i/06/c3/cd/61_1_b.JPG

Not sure if there are old or discontinued models of the AVC-R going around.

[Fergo]

how cheap is cheap, may wish to bid for it

[spacca]

Think it was $615 (excluding postage).
Not cheap, but not expensive either...

[oversteer]

Last AVCR I bought off green line was ~$580 delivered....

OS

[spacca]

Yeah that's what they quoted me, but I need one ASAP.
Can't wait a week for delivery. Pick it up tomorrow for $610.

[Fergo]

hmm thats on ok price 580 delivered.

[spacca]

hmm thats on ok price 580 delivered.

I haven't been able to find any better in the last 2 days.
If you're after a new AVC-R, I reckon this is as cheap as you'll get.

Greenline have a special on (save 2,000 yen or something) over the next few days apparently. Shoot em an email and get some pricing.

[Fergo]

im still weighing up whether to buy an avcr or one of these powerfc boost control kits, have a look in my new thread.

[Bazza]

I know it seems the AVCR is the way to go from everyone's input but you really can't discount the drag strip results of the eboost - the top rotor in Aus uses Eboost, the top RS Lib on these forums uses eboost, that 500 kw Hauls wrx uses eboost and there are others so I wouldn't exactly say that the eboost series is not upto the task.

[spacca]

Probably the only reason I went AVC-R is cause it was nearly $200 cheaper than the e-Boost2.

Plus Adrain gave it a good rap. As he's a tuner, that swayed me a bit.

No doubt the e-Boost does a top job though. :tu

[adrianvos]

You don't need good boost control to get good drag results. I will lay down money that all those cars would have gone just as quick with a bleed valve. Boost control is more important on a road or circuit car where:

* Often the engine is not nearly as strong and is run much closer to a point where it may break. Therefore accurate control is required, and consistency in different conditions.

* The car is not driven at full throttle all the time, so needs to have good drivability as well.

If you think that the boost controller contributed to those drag results to give a better result than any other method of boost control, you are way wrong. Simply a case of the Eboost being a Turbo smart part, and they have lots of contacts in the quicker end of the drag racing world.

-- Adrian

[wraithrslib]

Nothing wrong with the standard boost solenoid. I use it on mine with the Haltech controlling it, and boost control is very good.

-- Adrian

I agree adrian i use the standard boost solenoid with my motec m48, and it produced a boost curve to droool over.

cheers

[Fergo]

well I might buy myself an avcr just yet as I dont have the time and money to go the pfc route just yet, and I have had issues with the car so I took out the vos chip to try and eliminate the issue, and I couldnt stand cruising around on standard boost. not with the mods ive just done to the car I want to see what it can do now.