Ultimate ripped off Liberty Wagon

[LibertyWagonRS-T]

hi there

so yea RSLC has come to my attention when looking for help out of desperation when i bought the poor excuse for a car.

It's a 1991 liberty wagon GX, converted to RS Turbo wagon with a JDM legacy wagon, including the dash, front half of interior which came with the halfcut..

90% of items advertised was not true.. so if anyone recognises the wagon and knows the previous owner, i will give you a carton of piss for a punch to his head :P

motivation to sign up was for several reasons, been on perth-wrx where i got some parts to fix the car.. but also because i've been diagnosed with depression and have to see a shrink once a week now because of this shit.. so if you see the wagon in the middle of nowhere with a hose from the exhaust to the cabin, feel free to stop me :D

pics here


http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3447/dsc00150o.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/dsc00150o.jpg/)


http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/1711/dsc00149gh.jpg (http://img692.imageshack.us/i/dsc00149gh.jpg/)

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4262/dsc00148ru.jpg (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/dsc00148ru.jpg/)

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8980/dsc00147jg.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/dsc00147jg.jpg/)


even after telling the seller that was all the money i had, and that i was in a hurry and didn't have the time or money to fix major problems he told me the car was reliable and had no problems except for a minor steering rack leak. took his word for it thinking he's a genuine enthutiast..

closer inspection revealed car had

nothing as advertised
BHG - hidden with detergent in the cooling system
minor steering rack = total fuckup because of the insane height
suspension's fucked, wrong suspension anyway, and because of the inferior product and the setting of the height, basically the entire undercarriage is screwed
the running gear and drivetrain is suspect..

i've gotten suspension parts, new rack, still saving up for a new engine and i'm praying i don't need a new gearbox..


this is also to motivate me to fix the car so any help, suggestions, flaming etc all welcome..

plans atm are a v3/v4 sti engine (which i hope i'm in time to buy), fit the impreza suspension, fit steering rack, and then slowly make the car drivable and reliable.

[LibertyWagonRS-T]

by rip off, i mean i paid more than double what this car is actually worth on the pretence it had everything listed in the ad and had no major problems whatsoever..

[anark1]

did this car get independently tested by someone in the know or your equivalent of racv ? or just from a test drive you did ?

[cruisEH]

if you arent very mechanically minded, just take to doug. chances are he's worked on it before..

Hai Doug.. :)

[BenTZ]

id recomend a half cut to fix the car mate, it will be cheaper in the long run and you will get extra bits for spares and alloy control arms, 2.7 quick steering rack etc. wrx half cuts can be had for as little as $2k and if you dont plamn on using everything you can recoup upto $1k selling all un necessary parts.
a wrx RA half cut would be the way to go for cost versus performance bang for buck,

[dja]

id recomend a half cut to fix the car mate, it will be cheaper in the long run and you will get extra bits for spares and alloy control arms, 2.7 quick steering rack etc. wrx half cuts can be had for as little as $2k and if you dont plamn on using everything you can recoup upto $1k selling all un necessary parts.
a wrx RA half cut would be the way to go for cost versus performance bang for buck,

This is bang on the money.

Sorry you got stung mate, there are some dodgy fochers out there doing dodgy things.

Witha few pennies and some time you will be able to get her up and running.

[hobberz]

That sucks mate. There is always a 50/50 chance when buying 2nd hand cars that stuff can be dodgy, especially with modified cars.

Hope you can get it all sorted and start enjoying the car mate. +1 for the WRX RA half cut. :tu

[LibertyWagonRS-T]

thanks for the replies guys

doug has offered me a very good deal with the v3/v4 sti motor.. i'm saving up to pay for it and this is what i'm hoping for would be still available when i do have the money for it

unfortunately my situation is a bit tight, i work 2 jobs to support myself through uni and this fuckup took 10 months to save up.. and a lot of sacrifice, hence why i'm very cut about it turning out like this.. atm 7 shifts a week but uni is a priority so i migth have money ready by february or so, if everythign goes to plan.. but i'll be stretching the budget..

i test-drove it, looked over it etc.. at the time i was in a hurry for a car, this was a bit far from my way so i kept the travel to a minimum.. there was no way i could've known it didn't have the parts advertised, nothing short of stripping it down during inspection.

e.g. STI clutch - bullshit, but took a few hours to find out it was bullshit, and required removing certain things.. VF34 turbo - bullshit, but took 10 minutes by a mechanical minded person to find out
BHG - unspotted because the car ran fine, like old school turbo boxers do, and the fact it had some detergent in the cooling system hid the bhg very well..


2 grand for a halfcut eh?? hmm.. i'll put that on the list.. if i can't get the engine from doug..

on top of the 2 grand for the halfcut, i'd still need time and labour to swap motor, need new timing belt, oil seals, timing belt tensioner, fluids, etc etc.. and realistically what can i recover from what i don't use? doubt it'd be much.. i'd probably use most of the halfcut, as whats' on the car is either not working properly or works but suspect..

i'm still open to suggestions, and if anyone wants to take on this fuckup you are more than welcome to.. the car does have some cheap but ok goodies

e.g. VF30 turbo, 4.11 wrx running gear, wheels are spoken for, JVC stereo, fucked pedders etc.. i'm happy to give away.. end of the day i'll want the car up and running so even if i end up with a standard engine and standard running gear that's reliable i'll be happy..

to start with, the car does have a 3" TBE connected to the VF30, doubt this would go anywhere so am stuck with this?

[LibertyWagonRS-T]

correct me if i'm wrong..

but with the wrx RA halfcut...

1. do i need to use everything from it, inlet manifold, exhaust manifold, turbo etc? which means the VF30 + TBE i got there needs to be modified or something?

2. need to use the wrx RA ECu and wiring loom with the inlet manifold, so need to run the ecu and loom .. which means messing around with the dash?

3. assuming i have to use the manifolds, i can't keep the water to air intercooler?


just to get a rough estimate of a price of fitting and swapping stuff over.. :)

oh also.. currently the car has original rsturbo ecu with a wrxedit chip (advertised as group N rally chip bullshit) reason why i want to go to doug is he will do the v3/v4 engine but i can keep my existing ecu, inlet manifold etc etc.. but the package gives me a new timing belt, seals etc etc.. so i don't end up with leftover parts which i might not be able to sell.. so yea just to give me things to think about

[BenTZ]

if you get a version 1 , 2 3 or 4 sti or RA, just use your inlet manifold, including water to air intercooler, your manifold loom, rs cam and crank sensors etc, it will all bolt straight up, you will most likley find a few RS members in perth more than willing to fit up the engine and box, it should only take a weekend or so, ive just finished the same thing using a version 2 sti half cut, ours took a bit longer as we needed to replace the vehicle harness as well, which is not needed in your case.
if you get a version 1 or 2 half cut the wrx ecu will be better to use , a lot of members including myself use the ra Ecu's wit hgreat success.
id recomend just swapping over the whole front cross member as well, it saves time trying to swap the power steering rack over and alloy control arms.
you dont 'need' to service the engine before it goes in, recently we did a wrx swap into an rs (KNG-02L) and we found a bran new belt, seals and bits already on there, which we changed anyway as we'd already bought the parts.
it may save you some $$$ in the short term if your half cut has low km to do an engine service later when you can afford it.

[dtrally]

^^ What he said is a good idea. Fit up the whole wrx set up including struts, rack, engine and gearbox. Use the alloy arms and the TD05 turbo and plug in the WRX ECU. As far as the engine output is concerned it's still a complete unmodified Jap WRX so everything's matched and tuned. I can get you a 1/2 cut, 80,000km all mechinicals including radiator, closed deck engine etc. would cost you around $2800 without the panels.
As far as I can tell that would pretty much solve all your issues and upgrade the output as well.
Then you can on sell your existing gearbox, VF30 and part out your engine bits.

[mitch east]

You buy these cars as a great way to learn and understand how they work etc. Shame you bought a dud mate, ive done the same and have learnt heaps along the way. What seem like a massive hurdle now, wont be once you get a cut and its all running again. Plenty of help available here as you can tell, goodluck

[BenTZ]

you should get $500 atleast for the vf30, they are ok, but i rate the td05 for early engines. i have one on my legacy and it goes really well, not to laggy and its very fun to drive.

[Confused]

that sucks mate sorry to hear

[LibertyWagonRS-T]

doug - hm... okay so you're buying the RA wrx idea.. does this mean my 3" TBE from the back of the VF30 needs to be modified? also is 2800 fitted?

also the RA Ecu can be plugged in using the existing loom eh? hmm.. i'll also need the clutch pedal assembly among other things.. :( so yea.. the halfcut is looking like a good idea already.. oh hang on, don't i need the rear diff as well to match the gearbox?

i'm looking for exact figures, and all hidden costs.. the 80,000 kms halfcut looks good and it buys me time as well to save up (again) for a full service including oil seals etc..

[BenTZ]

depends what ratio your current diff is. you can use things like clurtch pedals etc from the ha;lf cut. everything except loom and pannls are interchangible from gc8 to lib.
ps i love that nardi wheel ;)

[hobberz]

Nardi wheel is great. :tu

[LibertyWagonRS-T]

i just received word this morning my missus isn't well and needs surgery.. unfortunately i've spent too much on this POS .. and if it wasn't for this ripoff i'd have money set aside for backup

so yea either this car gets sold for a minimum of 5 grand (pretty much a small fraction of what i paid for it), but i highly doubt anyone will give me more than 3 for it... or i'll put the new engine aside and pray the car stays together while i use it to go to work when i have to...

again, if anyone knows the previous owner, he's a lying SOB and please feel free to bonk him on the head for me..

sucks to be me.... sigh~..

on a brighter note - will start swapping the suspension tomorrow so at least it's street legal.. and yea will fit the steering rack i got off Doug.. stay tuned people :D

[LibertyWagonRS-T]

depends what ratio your current diff is. you can use things like clurtch pedals etc from the ha;lf cut. everything except loom and pannls are interchangible from gc8 to lib.
ps i love that nardi wheel ;)

you like the wheel? 150 bucks it's yours :)

it's a retrim though, i paid 220 for it shipped to my door.. it's in mint condition, maybe a unnoticable scratch somewhere but feels good :)

[zealot1500]

3. assuming i have to use the manifolds, i can't keep the water to air intercooler?




hey mate, ive got the V3 sti motor and manifold in my gen 2 lib and ive put the water to air intercooler on it :) the gearbox mount and the motor mount went straight on and i just had modify the bracket off the manifold out of the old bracket and get a slightly longer hose from the manifold to the cooler :) so easy mate

ive had a 96 wrx motor and TD04 and now the V3 sti motor and the VF23 and they use the exact same exhaust and dump pipe :) same bolt pattern :D

[LibertyWagonRS-T]

oh fair enough..

i got a turbo back so i'm guessing the dump goes from the turbo itself.. but yea i thought the exhaust housing pattern from TD to VF turbo is different. hm.. okay.. no worries.. when we come to that i'll sort it out.. as you read my previous post, i'm really cut atm because of my missus... really make me feel so useless one bad decision has done this to us

[LibertyWagonRS-T]

so yea did the suspension today... first pic is how ridiculously low the car sits.. i've swapped it out for MY97 struts on lowered springs, it's a straigth swap and already 2 inches taller than the way it was before. Part numbers from KYB are different for the struts, i'm assuming it's to do with the stroke length, so i'm also guessing it will bottom out ?

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/592/dsc00151l.jpg (http://img685.imageshack.us/i/dsc00151l.jpg/)

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9985/dsc00152wj.jpg (http://img402.imageshack.us/i/dsc00152wj.jpg/)

fronts with impreza stuts.. not really noticable but it is definitely higher than it was before.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2858/dsc00153k.jpg (http://img402.imageshack.us/i/dsc00153k.jpg/)

as an indication of how bad my luck is, and how ripped off i was, the undercarriage is fucked because of the stupid height. things bent, chassis rails have kinks in them.. and there is indication of a big front end smash at some stage..

front strut tops on top of the pedders coilovers are fucked too (MisterTwo was spot on the money on this one)

if anyone wants pedders coilovers, there're yours free.. the coilovers aren't leaking.. is height adjustable and possibly damper adjustable,.. i have spare strut tops for the front as well as helper springs for the rears so they shouldn't squeak.. will fit early imprezas as well.

[05-BROCKY-05]

Sad to hear mate, but i think you should stick with it, i didnt have the same circumstances as yours but im sure pleanty of guys have been in the dont have money category time and time again. I used to have a list on my machine at work, to know how close i was to my target, it was motivation enough for me to keep on going.

PM sent btw regarding coilovers, if they are usable anyway.

[LibertyWagonRS-T]

PM replied

free because it's pedders

[LibertyWagonRS-T]

circumstances have changed... i really can't afford to fix this shit..

assuming the previous owner is a cock and has driven the car the way it is, with the BHG.. assuming he's a big cock and driven it to the point he thinks the BHG will become a problem, can i just drive the car without something blowing up or overheating?

at the moment it's not over-heating, so.. what should i look out for before i should stop driving? exhaust is getting into the coolant, so will coolant go out the exhaust? will it overheat? chemiweld isn't an option because i'm stuck with it and i don't want the stuff clogging up heater core, etc etc..

also, does anyone recognise this car and know the previous owner?

[yods]

You can bypass the heater core really easily (two small coolant lines hit the passenger side firewall nearish each other). A friend had great success chemiwelding her turbo starlet - it even saw a few track days. Not sure how our (water + oil) cooled turbos go in this approach.


As I understand it, the more boost the engine sees, the more stress on the head gasket. So if you want to drive it around, limit the amount you get on boost, and artificially limit your boost available by running wastegate pressure.

Are you positive it's a BHG? Was it TK'd ?

[jimki]

just sell it :tu

[dtrally]

Just monitor the water usage every morning and continue driving it until it won't go any more. I've driven EJ20T's for ages with really badly blown headgaskets, yours sounds very minor (if at all)
Just becaue some garage tells you it's blown, as long as it doesn't badly overheat just keep going. Your engine (even without a blown gasket) is only worth around $300 anyway so you've got nothing to lose.

[ian]

Drive it and keep the water up. i drove mine for 5,000k's with a blown head gasket. Keep it topped up and monitor your oil for water.

Head gaskets are cheap. Belt.tensioner.waterpump should run to about 600 trade price. Surely someone in WA can help. Only takes a day and basic tool and consumables to replace.

The rest is all easily changed in due time mate.

[LibertyWagonRS-T]

thanks for the replies

ya it's definitely BHG.. currently on a higher boost because of the chip.. will pull the chip out when i get a chance

no i won't disconnect the heater core, i'd be using the heater in winter (yes i'm a pussy but if the car has a heater i'm using it.. if a 1974 car without aircon has a working heater so can this POS)

doug - i plan to drive it until it doesn't go anymore but when you said this, does this mean that eventually it will over heat? or the crack in the gasket will become bigger and cause hydrolock or something? this is what i'm trying to figure out, how long can i drive this car around for if i just keep up the coolant? or am i asking "how long is a piece of string" with this?

head gaskets are cheap.. the amount of labour involved to replace it is not worth.. the halfcut is a lot more worth it because i need everything from the halfcut.. everytime i look under the bonnet i find something else is fucked..

[akpv]

you don't need to remove chip to run waste gate pressure. Just run a line from compressor to waste gate actuator.

[Blaeven]

buy insurance and burn it??

just saying... ;)

sucks you got stung mate...

same shit happened to me, bought my car from a dealer with what i thought was immaculate paint... bit of a cut and polish took off the 'touch up' paint and revealed my car for the ugly POS that it is...

lucky it goes fast(ish)

good luck getting it all sorted mate

[LibertyWagonRS-T]

update -

okay i've got time now to start fixing the car..

struts are all in and car sits better than it did before, not as low as before, a bit floaty.. but yea drives well.. not too scared of humps anymore

problem - driver side is half an inch lower than passenger side, only in front.. is that normal? it's mY98/99 struts with Kings superlow springs.. they haven't been used in a few months so should i be worried?

also started saving up for the halfcut.. anyone got any contacts for getting the impreza RA halfcut?

[dtrally]

problem - driver side is half an inch lower than passenger side, only in front.. is that normal?


You need to measure on flat ground. If there's a slight bump on one corner (even the opposite end) it'll throw all your measurements out. If in doubt, turn or move the car and re-measure.

[liberty_lx]

You might wanna get those kinks in the chassis rail checked out too. I'd be a bit weary

For the money u would spend on putting a half cut it can be worth it to cut ur losses and move onto something a bit more worth the time.

Either way though I wish u the best of luck

[LibertyWagonRS-T]

You need to measure on flat ground. If there's a slight bump on one corner (even the opposite end) it'll throw all your measurements out. If in doubt, turn or move the car and re-measure.

yea i checked it on a flat ground..d rove it around, went over a few bumps.. then checked it again.. only thing i havent' done is a wheel alignment.. but even if the camber is out, i doubt it would cause a half inch height difference?

you got PM mate :D

[LibertyWagonRS-T]

You might wanna get those kinks in the chassis rail checked out too. I'd be a bit weary

For the money u would spend on putting a half cut it can be worth it to cut ur losses and move onto something a bit more worth the time.

Either way though I wish u the best of luck

thanks mate

the guy that sold me this car apparently has pissed a few people off, trouble is they can't remember where he lives so they have been randomly burning cars around where he lives.. unfortunately it's in the hills surrounded by trees and what not..

i've done my part by giving information to police..

oh the people he pissed off, from what i hear, has nothing to do with subies so nobody has asked me where he lives yet.. and it looks as if the cops can't connect the dots to gather enough evidence to charge him.. so yea ... pity... there's a very cool twist to the targetted areas too.. :P

i wish i can cut my losses but if you knew how much i picked this car up for, you would understand why i've become depressed and see a shrink to deal with the issues in my life now.

[Woz]

Well you can sit around and complain about it...Or get stuck into an overhaul!

[DJB]

Well you can sit around and complain about it...Or get stuck into an overhaul!
Quoted for the truth.

I had massive problems when doing my conversion. I lost my job recently before and had no work lined up. I was also seeing a shrink.

Hopefulloy yours tells me what mine did. Get into a pattern, start workin on problems and you'll slowly chip away at them.

I've now got a fiance', a more rewarding job, a and a house. Life is treating me and the Mrs to be (getting married on Apr 17th) really well.

All you need to do is put a list together, start at the top and work your way to the bottom, you'll get there eventually.

If I were in your shoes, I'd have saved for the half cut anbd done it all in one go, rather than steering rack here and struts there, both of those would've been on the cut.

My list If I were in your shoes would be:
1. Save for 1/2 cut (2k5)
2. BBQ and RSLC WA working bee (200 in beer ans sausages).

That should:
1. Fix most of your problems
2. Make new firends
3. Learn a heap about your car so you can do the rest of the work yourself.

If you were in Adelaide, I'd come round and prob bring the beers and sangs to get you started.

Cheers
Darryl

[LibertyWagonRS-T]

Well you can sit around and complain about it...Or get stuck into an overhaul!

easier said than done mate..

everytime i look at it i get very depressed.. and i can't find the will to save up another 2.5 grand + many hours for it..

almost there.. had a work place accident so it's set me back a few hundred bucks, but yea will be going to doug once i have the money for it..

[smoov]

Chin up.

You need to be more optimistic. Focus on the positives. Be happy that there's a wealth of information available here, with more than capable people here ready to answer any question you have.

And shit man, you've got Doug! The guy is truly a Subaru magician, a scholar and a gentleman.

It's all good.

:)

[hobberz]

Just relax dude. Like Alex said just focus on the positives.

Everyone has dramas with their cars at one point in time, some big and some small. Look at Jack(big red car) poor guy has had a few motors spin a bearing and he hasn't even looked like giving up.

Once you get the car sorted and get to take it for a good drive you will not be able to wipe the smile off your face, and all your hard work will be very rewarding. :tu

[LibertyWagonRS-T]

thanks for the support :D

[seanoz]

Wow, reading this thread makes me feel all warm and uzzy, you gotta admit, this is a great bunch of guys and a great place to talk.

Keep your chin up mate, can't tell you how many times cars have made me feel crap, and yet it all works out in the end, you know?

Especially when that lumpy boxer note is underfoot!

Sean.

[DJB]

Progress??

[Only1MADMaN]

Mate I know of the hardships of being ripped off and it is not something that any man or women should have to go thru

I will say this

"Focus on the things you can control"

When its out of control, and when you cant do anything about it! You just need to let it go and wait till you can get a grip!

I know you may look at the car and become more depressed but you need to turn this around. If you keep putting up these feelings and barriers you will not find the strength you need to push forward.

Stop making negatives buddy! Surround yourself with people that can help you with this build and make it happen!

Good Luck and always remember
"There is someone out there that is worse off then you"