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Thread: 13B Turbo powered Brumby build

  1. #36
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    Default 5 stud conversion

    One other option for your front suspension to keep it more standard looking for engineers piece of mind is to use L series front control arms with the ball joint hole enlarged to take the EJ ball joint. You can then modify XD Falcon radius rods to give you adjustable castor using the factory rear mount. As these are threaded you can set them to where you want. I have this setup in an MY coupe running an EJ driveline. Your build is inspiring me to restore my coupe's body and fit a turbo engine, presently has an EJ22 NA.
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  2. #37
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by legacytt
    One other option for your front suspension to keep it more standard looking for engineers piece of mind is to use L series front control arms with the ball joint hole enlarged to take the EJ ball joint. You can then modify XD Falcon radius rods to give you adjustable castor using the factory rear mount. As these are threaded you can set them to where you want. I have this setup in an MY coupe running an EJ driveline. Your build is inspiring me to restore my coupe's body and fit a turbo engine, presently has an EJ22 NA.
    Sorry but how does using L series LCA and Fraud bits instead of the complete Liberty/WRX setup make it more standard ??

    Sounds like a reasonable idea though - but I think I wll stick to the way I am doing it.

  3. #38
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    just means you pick up exactly the same mounting points on the brumby, and all the liberty/WRX stuff bolts on top of it!

    the l series LCA gives you more track width
    the modified ford arms give you some adjustment to tweak the setup to suit

    the only tricky bit is the taper for the ball joint in the LCA is different, so you either need a ball joint adapter, or machine/weld in the correct taper

    and as far as an engineer cares it all looks factory

    personally i used some 24mm threaded rod and got the local spring works to forge the end flat do i could drill a couple of holes for the LCA (but i wanted something really strong to run the big tyres!)

  4. #39
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesteel
    just means you pick up exactly the same mounting points on the brumby, and all the liberty/WRX stuff bolts on top of it!

    the l series LCA gives you more track width
    the modified ford arms give you some adjustment to tweak the setup to suit

    the only tricky bit is the taper for the ball joint in the LCA is different, so you either need a ball joint adapter, or machine/weld in the correct taper

    and as far as an engineer cares it all looks factory

    personally i used some 24mm threaded rod and got the local spring works to forge the end flat do i could drill a couple of holes for the LCA (but i wanted something really strong to run the big tyres!)
    Fair enough but I already have all the WRX/Liberty bits including alloy LCA's and a liberty donor car to supply the LCA rear mounts - personally I think it is a better way of doing it - and its a road car not an offroad car so i want it to be as much like a WRX as possible.

  5. #40
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    Default front end

    Each to their own for sure, I just thought something using factory mounts would be easier to pass than bits off another car randomly welded on. I suppose if you can make it look like it has been there for years, or paint the whole area it should get passed. If you can make it work, it is likely to handle better than the old setup. will be keen to see how it turns out.
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  6. #41
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by legacytt
    Each to their own for sure, I just thought something using factory mounts would be easier to pass than bits off another car randomly welded on. I suppose if you can make it look like it has been there for years, or paint the whole area it should get passed. If you can make it work, it is likely to handle better than the old setup. will be keen to see how it turns out.
    Don't take offense to this but I am taking offense to your posts. You obviously don't know exactly how I am planning on doing this or the fact that it is a complete bare shell rebuild. I am not using 'bits off another car randomly welded on'. I am removing the LCA rear mounts from the Liberty and welding them on in such a way that they will look factory - this would maintain all the factory Liberty steering and suspension geometry and will be a lot better than mixing and matching bits from all different cars.

    but it doesn't work so your way might be better after all hahaha.

    Turns out the Brumby crossmember LCA mount is too far inwards and means there is about 15degrees of positive camber.

    Anybody measure the length of an L series LCA for me ?

    In the meantime its back to the drawing board
    Last edited by niterida; 20th August 2011 at 12:21 AM.

  7. #42
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    I had another play today and remeasured the Brumby crossmember and it turns out that the LCA mounts are 110mm narrower than the Liberty, the strut tops are 110mm narrower than the Liberty and the wheel track is also 110mm narrower so all the Liberty bits should bolt on and be correct. So there must be something else affecting the angle of the coilovers and as I was sitting pondering and looking at the strut towers I realised what it was - the Brumby strut tower tops are at a more acute angle then the Liberty ones !!!!

    So problem solved - sort of.

    Now I have a choice of which way to do this :

    1. Brumby crossmember - means that I don't have to flare the guards (front and back) or change the strut towers, but I do have to get 4 shortened CV shafts ($480) and shorten the rear lateral links.

    2. Liberty crossmember - means that I have to flare all 4 guards, move the strut towers, and cut into the chassis rail (but not as much as I first thought) and don't need to shorten lateral links or CV shafts,

    So which should I do ?

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    Hi Mate
    Get on ausubaru forum and look for Paul(rsr555) or guyph,they are both adapting later model suspensions into early cars.
    Chris
    Cant wait to see this beast on the road!!

  9. #44
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by christian
    Hi Mate
    Get on ausubaru forum and look for Paul(rsr555) or guyph,they are both adapting later model suspensions into early cars.
    Chris
    Cant wait to see this beast on the road!!
    yeah I know Guy and Paul - going down to Perth in about 4 weeks for Paul to swap my H6 into my Outback :-)

    Still open to options - though kinda leaning towards legacytt's idea of L series LCA and a radius rod as long as this works using the Liberty hubs and struts ??

  10. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by niterida
    Anybody measure the length of an L series LCA for me ?

    In the meantime its back to the drawing board
    365mm centre of ball joint hole to centre of control arm bush tube. note this for L series control arms that take a 24mm bush and Liberty ball joint.

  11. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by niterida
    Still open to options - though kinda leaning towards legacytt's idea of L series LCA and a radius rod as long as this works using the Liberty hubs and struts ??
    L series arms move the wheel forward 70mm i think due to their different shape to MY arms.

    I plan on using mitsubishi express radius rods as they are already designed and work in compression and are pretty close to the right length as opposed to modifying and forging to shape Ford ones that are designed and used in tension and datsun rally guys break all the time.
    The only problem is that the subaru radius rod mount hole is a little too small and express bushes are a little too wide to seat comfortably in the subaru mount. nothing i hope thats not able to be overcome







    they are from these shape vans:
    2004 MITSUBISHI EXPRESS WA M04 WALK-THRU


    also note that the earlier box shaped express vans have the same design rods but are 30mm shorter between the inner bolt hole and the start of the thread (350mm)

    check out this album that i will gradually get photos and measurements of my progress uploaded in
    radius rod stuff

  12. #47
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Notice anything missing :





    Yep I did a little bit of cutting today.

    The floor is being cut along the red lines and being fitted to the Brumby complete with tunnel and gearbox crossmember mounts. This will be cut to just sit on the existing Brumby chassis rail.



    The chassis rail is also being cut along the red line and welded to the outside of the Brumby chassis.



    At the rear it will actually straddle the Brumby chassis and be welded to the firewall as well. This requires a little bit to be cut from the Brumby chassis as shown by the red circle/oval shape. This will mean I can also use the factory LCA mounts.



    My biggest problem is actually the engine crossmember bolts - they sit exactly on the outside edge of the Brumby chassis. Not 100% sure how to solve this but it will involve a nice piece of RHS inside the 2 chassis rails to join them together and give a decent strong mounting point. Will probably involve dog legging the Liberty rail to run the factory mounts once again.



    Now it is not really necessary to run the whole chassis rail - I could just use the LCA mounts and the engine crossmember mount sections but by using the whole lot it will look like it cam from the factory that way (hopefully).

    It sounds like a lot of hard work but it is mainly labour which is cheap and it will mean I can run the entire Liberty suspension exactly as it is in the Liberty and the end result should have people scratching their heads to find out exactly how it was done.

    And my engineer has approved it as well

  13. #48
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    Well I have reached the point of no return :





    I took a few big deep breaths, thought long and hard about it, looked around a few times to make sure I really wanted to do this. If I cut this car up and it didn't work I would have been wasting a perfectly good $200 shell ;)

    And this is what I have done to my Liberty chassis rails :






  14. #49
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    So now the 2 of them meet up like so :





    And ta-da it almost looks factory :



    Once it is welded in and all the gaps filled and painted it will look factory

    And even the LCA mounts will look factory - although I've got a fairly large hole to plate



    The other side will be so much easier - just need to copy the cuts from this side. Today was a lot of cutting and grinding taking little bits off here and there and fitting it up to see how it was then taking a bit more off. Fraught with danger in case I took too much off but I didn't do too badly - in fact I'm pretty bloody ecstatic

  15. #50
    Member DanThe Man's Avatar
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    awesome work mate, cant wait to see the finished product!

  16. #51
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    such a great project, can not wait to see the rest of the build progress!

  17. #52
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Thanks for the comments guys - will be doing the other side tomorrow and hopefully have it welded in by the end of the weekend.
    The rear is alot easier as it only needs new mounting holes in the frame and a couple of small brackets made for the trailing arms and the front of the T shaped diff mount - should have that sorted by the time I go back to work on Wednesday.
    The floor will go in the week after and the whole thing should be done by Christmas......















    Disclaimer : I didn't specify which Christmas :-)

  18. #53
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    Got a little bit more done today.

    Welded back in some of the metal I took off yesterday trying to make it fit. You can see a bit clearer in this photo exactly how it is being done. You can also see where the Liberty chassis has been sliced - right down the middle of the mounting holes :-( Which is the main reason for me doing all this hard work. The final product will have a piece of RHS welded in across both the Liberty and Brumby chassis - joing them both together and providing a nice strong point for the mounting bolts.



    You can see in these next 2 pictures how the Liberty chassis straddles the Brumby one and how the LCA mounting points will weld to the firewall. Little bit of massagin still be done though.





    And finally you can see the Liberty strut tower is pretty much flush against the inner fender of the Brumby and will be fully welded in. Gotta get a strut brace first, do the other side, mount the strut brace and then weld it in - that way will ensure it is in the right position.


  19. #54
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Started on the rear crossmember today. After hours of measuring and scratching my head I finally realised that the Brumby chassis/crossmember is not symetrical !!
    you can see in these pics that the mounting holes and the chassis are not identical on each side :





    But managed to get the crossmember mounted temporarily so I could suss out the rest of the mounts for the diff hanger and the trailing arms.

    The diff hanger is fairly straight forward - I have cut the arms down to length and just need to bang up some stong mounts using some decent angle and fully weld it into the corner between the chassis rail and the rear of the cabin.



    The trailing arms are a different matter - once again things are in exactly the wrong spot - 10mm in any direction and it would be a lot easier. As it stands the mounting brackets are wide and flat but the chassis where they sit is narrow and curved. I don't want to modify the chassis if I can avoid it because it is fairly weak around this area anyway. So not sure yet if I am going to make up new brackets to suit the chassis or mod the chassis and try to strengthen it and tie it into the front chassis a bit better while I am there.



    But at least its in and looking reasonable :







    And just to check I got it central in the wheel arch I stuck a rim on it. It sits a tiny bit further forward than backwards but I think this is probably a good thing. The tyres on these rims are 215/60/16 which are Outback sized - will eventually be running something like 215/40/16 which are nearly 90mm smaller in diameter so there will be heaps of clearance and heaps of room to get it real low......


  20. #55
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    Work has slowed since real paid work has got in the way and the fact that I have decided to scrap the 2 weeks hard work cutting the Liberty chassis to fit. I have found a much better way of doing it but its topsecret so I won't p[ost anything until it is completely done.

    In the meantime I had to go to Perth for business so I picked up a few goodies while I was there.

    Genuine Momo steering wheel :



    Set of 15's to match my 16's :


    Got these because it is easier snd cheaper to find tyres the right size to pass rego and they will be more comfortable in my daily driven Brumby which will only have a 2.5 and auto.

    Set of alloy arms to keep the weight down and already polished :



    Set of DBA 5000 2 piece rotors to go with my 4 pots :



    Set of fibreglass backed reclinable seats for the daily driven Brumby :



    and finally a seat of fixed back fibreglass seats for this Brumby :


  21. #56
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Niterida's 10 Step EJ into Brumby process ->

    Step 1 - cut out damaged and slightly rusty floor :



    Step 2 - cut out pesky narrow Brumby frame rails :





    Step 3 - bolt EJ crossmember to Brumby frame rails :



    Step 4 - weld Liberty LCA mounts to Brumby frame rails :



    Step 5 - bolt EJ gearbox crossmember to Brumby frame rails :



    Step 6 - modify Brumby frame rails to fit Liberty floor :







    Step 7 - replace Brumby floor with Liberty floor :



    Step 8 - place Brumby frame rails in new position :







    Step 9 - stand back and admire handiwork :-D

    Step 10 - realise you now have to pull it all apart to tweak it here and there, weld it in place and make lots of fiddly plates to be welded into all the gaps

  22. #57
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    Hats off to you for your determination to even get to this far!!!

    I would have lost faith by now!!

    Keep up the terrific work mate!
    They say money talks, all mine ever says is Goodbye

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    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    And I have picked up a Series 6 RX7 twin turbo motor for it - 206kw from the factory - should go alright with just a tweak on the boost . . . . . .

  24. #59
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    Epic mission, I tip my hat to you and your skills.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marty
    melted butter and a stack hat??? Not again - i'm still sore

  25. #60
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    Are you Still planning to run this as an AWD? Just curious about the motor to gearbox configuration is all...can i presume some type of adaptor plate is available or is this on the 'list of things to figure out' as you go?
    Like Alex said, big kudos on your determination...this will be much fun when complete.
    Pete.
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  26. #61
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peteRS
    Are you Still planning to run this as an AWD? Just curious about the motor to gearbox configuration is all...can i presume some type of adaptor plate is available or is this on the 'list of things to figure out' as you go?
    Like Alex said, big kudos on your determination...this will be much fun when complete.
    Pete.
    Yeah running DCCD 5 speed box - been done before a couple of times - could make my own adapter or buy a kit from volksconversions for $800 which includes the a modified flywheel etc.

  27. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by niterida
    And I have picked up a Series 6 RX7 twin turbo motor for it - 206kw from the factory - should go alright with just a tweak on the boost . . . . . .
    Yeah... no.

    The series 6 13B twin turbo suffer a similar TTAIDS to what the Subaru did.

    Either leave it alone, and hope for the best, or convert to single turbo for best results (and I'm not even stirring...!)
    They say money talks, all mine ever says is Goodbye

  28. #63
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smoov
    Yeah... no.

    The series 6 13B twin turbo suffer a similar TTAIDS to what the Subaru did.

    Either leave it alone, and hope for the best, or convert to single turbo for best results (and I'm not even stirring...!)
    Who cares - its a much better motor inside - harder facings on the plates and housings, CNC'd rotor faces, stronger block, proper crank timing (instead of the stupid electronic dizzy of S4/5) etc etc.

    But the real reason I want a S6 is the rear engine mounts - the are roughly in the same position as the EJ mounts so will make it a lot easier.

    ANd yes a nice big single turbo will be the first thing on the shopping list once its rego'd

  29. #64
    HiVizStig Supporting RSLC BenTZ's Avatar
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    looks epic, thought about rear strut towers yet?
    Ichiban Imports , for all your imported parts and BC coilovers 02 9600 7066
    WSID ET:11.71 1.63 60 ft

  30. #65
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenTZ
    looks epic, thought about rear strut towers yet?
    Yeah - welding in the towers from the donor Liberty - that should be one of the easier jobs...................

  31. #66
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    yeah, ill be in a similar position to you soon with my project.
    Ichiban Imports , for all your imported parts and BC coilovers 02 9600 7066
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  32. #67
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    wow just wow

    what gear bag are you going to use now Ken ?

  33. #68
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Still using a 4.44 5 speed DCCD box - from a V6 STi S201 with a front LSD - was bidding on a 6 speed on ebay but it went too high. Would prefer to run a 6 speed but just can't afford it but will keep my eye open for one between now and when the 5 speed breaks hehehehe

  34. #69
    Big Kahuna BIG POSTER BJM's Avatar
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    Keep your eye on Import Monster. I know a few people who have landed them for under $2.5k. Even one landed for under $2.5k including clutch master cylinder, braided line and OS Giken twin plate clutch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marty
    melted butter and a stack hat??? Not again - i'm still sore

  35. #70
    HiVizStig Supporting RSLC BenTZ's Avatar
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    thought about sticking with an ej?
    Ichiban Imports , for all your imported parts and BC coilovers 02 9600 7066
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