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Thread: 13B Turbo powered Brumby build

  1. #71
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJM
    Keep your eye on Import Monster. I know a few people who have landed them for under $2.5k. Even one landed for under $2.5k including clutch master cylinder, braided line and OS Giken twin plate clutch.
    IM is too much of a hassle having to have money deposited before you win and then having to wait to get it back if you don't win.

    Quote Originally Posted by BenTZ
    thought about sticking with an ej?
    No not at all - why would I want to do that ? How many EJ's do you see in the 10's compared to how many Rotary's - not to mention in the 6's

    But seriously I have always loved rotarys and just want to do this for me.

    And I have another Brumby sitting here waiting for the same treatment and I have a choice of EJ22, 25 or EZ30 with auto or another 4.44 dcccd speed

  2. #72
    The Professor BIG POSTER Billsy's Avatar
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    Love the work so far, most people cringe at making cuts to fit a FMIC. this takes it to a new level.

    as for 10 sec EJs. with the weight... or lack of... you wouldnt need that much to get there.
    that said, a stock gearbox may not be the best for that attempt either.

    Keep the updates coming as you progress, its motivational for me to build my project.
    Having a fast FWD is like coming out of the closet. Sure you will surprise some people but in the end, everyone knows you're gay.

  3. #73
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billsy
    as for 10 sec EJs. with the weight... or lack of... you wouldnt need that much to get there.
    that said, a stock gearbox may not be the best for that attempt either.
    yeah should get there with 240kw (at the wheels) Plan is to hope the box holds until I do a 10 and then never do it again.

    But in all honesty with the standard 13BTT putting out 206kw at the flywheel that should be enough to do an 11 and that is plenty quick enough.

    Thanks for the kind words

  4. #74
    Getting there Mong00se's Avatar
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    this is awesome

    my S8 made over 200rwkw with just a power FC, stock everything else
    92 Liberty RS 166kw (LONG gone) 60.7 QR Sprint (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1wj8e9Xr-M)

    02 WRX STI, 198kw, FZ201, DMS 50mm, eflex
    59.14 QR Sprint (damp/new surface) 61.76 QR Clubman (perfect day)
    Lakeside Park Raceway 59.43 FZ201 / 60.5 federal rs-r / 59.13 Hankook RS-3
    41.65 Morgan Park B circuit/ 1:26.588 Morgan Park K Circuit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IrhY...s11bfkpWZi2jjw)

  5. #75
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mong00se
    this is awesome

    my S8 made over 200rwkw with just a power FC, stock everything else
    That would be enough for low 11s according to the calculators as long as I can keep the weight down to 970kg (standard Brumby weight)

    I was thinking bigger intercooler, 3" exhaust and upping the boost and eventually a reasonable sized single turbo - should be an easy 250awkw

    Althoughmy front cut is a series 6 - not sure if there are any major differences between them ? How did you find the twin turbos and the cut over from primary to secondary - did the PFC help ?

  6. #76
    Getting there Mong00se's Avatar
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    lol you won't need much of a turbo... I made 270kw with a td07 25g, ~11psi of boost, 3" exhaust, motor popped - now making 380kwatw on 16psi and a bridge port built bottom full boost before 4k
    92 Liberty RS 166kw (LONG gone) 60.7 QR Sprint (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1wj8e9Xr-M)

    02 WRX STI, 198kw, FZ201, DMS 50mm, eflex
    59.14 QR Sprint (damp/new surface) 61.76 QR Clubman (perfect day)
    Lakeside Park Raceway 59.43 FZ201 / 60.5 federal rs-r / 59.13 Hankook RS-3
    41.65 Morgan Park B circuit/ 1:26.588 Morgan Park K Circuit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IrhY...s11bfkpWZi2jjw)

  7. #77
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Came across my first problem
    The chassis rails were pushed out wider than I thought and this has left a little bit of a gaping hole :





    But not to worry - 3 hours playing with cardboard and then some decent 1.6mm steel resulted in this :







    Should be plenty storng enough and still looks like a factory stamping (or at least it will once its welded in and all the gaps filled and smoothed.
    Pretty stoked with that as it is my first attempt at something like this

  8. #78
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Well I have been busy spending the past 6 weeks tring to get that bracket right. The first one I made was a 2 piece one and once I welded it it didn't fit quite the same. So I have made about a dozen in cardboard and another half a dozen in steel trying to get it exactly right. Even tried filling the area with expanding foam so I could get the shape exactly right but that didn't quite work. So after much swearing and cursing I finally have 2 brackets ready to be welded in. Once they are on I can weld the chassis rails and floor back in and then get cracking with putting it all back together. Should be done by New Years - just not sure which New Year ;D

    Foam attempt :




    When I finally got it right I made a template in case I do another one :


    From this I made a left and right bracket :




    and here they are ready to be welded in :



  9. #79
    One of us BIG POSTER bigboyscottyb's Avatar
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    great work mate

    i am quite keen to see this as a final product, will be a fun toy

  10. #80
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigboyscottyb View Post
    great work mate

    i am quite keen to see this as a final product, will be a fun toy
    Thanks Scott

    kinda looking forward to seeing a final product too

    Thats basically the hard work done - once the chassis and floor are welded in the running gear will all bolt straight in so it will be on to paint and re-assembly - ha wishful thinking !!

  11. #81
    Getting there KOS!'s Avatar
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    Once you bolt it in you will slip back into the bug and go hey, why not full cut ports and the biggest turbo that you can fit!

  12. #82
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    Credit where credit is due. I know it has been mentioned a couple of times now, but well done. Having the patience and ingenuity to start & complete something like this is not an easy ride. Well done mate keep up the good work

  13. #83
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    I've been a bit slack since Xmas but managed to at least get it looking like a car again :



    I have squared up the chassis rails and welded them temporarily to hold them in place. Then I bolted the Liberty crossmember back in and finally bolted a WRX strut brace across the towers. This puts everything in exactly the right place so now all I have to do is weld it in !!

    Easier said than done though - I still have to make those pesky brackets from the rails to the wheelwell. And since bolting the strut brace in it has moved the position of the rails slightly so its back to square one on those - bugger.

    But on a bright note I am moving house next weekend - this one has a shed that is almost twoce the size - 8m x 12m compared to the 6x9 that I have now - woohoo - plenty of room to move

  14. #84
    formally 988OXR JRod's Avatar
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    Awesome!!!!!
    Cheers Jarrod




    Quote Originally Posted by markmcrs
    We ran the VP in Billsy's HIGH COMPRESSION motor so it could boost past 15 psi without pinging - long story.

  15. #85
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    Awesome Project, hats off to you for going a well different path....

    From experience of 13B REW ownership, having rebuilt one myself, Id freshen the S6 up with a rebuild kit, full seal an gasket kit, even "low km" are time bombs fantastic motors.. Id do a blank off kit from the states an make the turbos run para instead of seq as its is a total nightmare chasing vacuum problems if a solenoid goes shit, as has been said by mongoose single turbo these motors for trouble free motoring.

    good luck mate awesome car when its done.
    Stroker, 35R, 6spd etc etc.... zzzzzz

  16. #86
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank Subie Wagon View Post
    Awesome Project, hats off to you for going a well different path....

    From experience of 13B REW ownership, having rebuilt one myself, Id freshen the S6 up with a rebuild kit, full seal an gasket kit, even "low km" are time bombs fantastic motors.. Id do a blank off kit from the states an make the turbos run para instead of seq as its is a total nightmare chasing vacuum problems if a solenoid goes shit, as has been said by mongoose single turbo these motors for trouble free motoring.

    good luck mate awesome car when its done.
    Thanks.

    Not sure what is happening with the S6 half cut - I bought it with 34,000km but when I got it it had 113,000km !! I am in "negotiations" at the moment with the seller to see what we can do about this 'slight' error

    But on a bright note I have figured out exactly how to make that bracket from the chassis to the firewall. Its one of those 'so simple why didn't I think of it before' moments......

  17. #87
    HiVizStig Supporting RSLC BenTZ's Avatar
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    no offense, but if you think a series 6 had 34000 km on it your kidding yourself, the only way it has 34000 is a wind back. this is a great project though and im loving the progress. cant wait till its finished.
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  18. #88
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    Great work mate... can't wait to see some more progress! very interesting!

  19. #89
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenTZ View Post
    no offense, but if you think a series 6 had 34000 km on it your kidding yourself, the only way it has 34000 is a wind back. this is a great project though and im loving the progress. cant wait till its finished.
    Well you can only go by what they tell you - if they mislead you then you have an option of legal recourse - I paid by paypal so could have put a claim in but by the time I pulled my finger out and went and collected it from the depot it was too late. Anyway he has agreed to refund some money so it is still a worhtwhile purchase . It was a fully dressed cut and is completely standard so there was always the possibility of it being genuine low kms - they are out there !!

    I have just spent the last 3 weeks moving house - well I should say moving shed because that is what took the most time - and it is twice the size of my old one at 8m x 12m.





    I have a week off work in a couple of weeks so hope to get the chassis rails and floor at least tacked into position and that pesky bracket finalised too.

  20. #90
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    SUCCESS AT LAST !!

    I had a brain wave a few weeks ago and decided I should be making my bracket out of 2 pieces after all. I was so fixated on making it strong enough by using 1 piece that I didn't see the obvious way of doing it. So we now have 2 cardboard templates :





    That are used to make the 2 parts of the bracket :





    The benefit of doing it this way is the only bends are for the 'flanges' and because they are narrow they are easily bent and beaten into submission - oops I mean shape.

    So they now join up thus :



    And fit perfectly into place :



    You can see here how this simple flat piece (well slightly bent really) goes across where the chassis used to be welded to the firewall, all the way across the chassis and then joins the other bracket to tie it all together. Pretty sure this will be as strong, if not stronger, than the original position of the chassis





    Next job is to tack the WRX floor, the chassis and my new brackets in place and then get a professional to weld it up fully. Then I can just bolt all the WRX suspension and steering and the gearbox straight in. Then I need to finish off mounting the rear suspension, bolt the rotary to the box and job done - NOT !!
    Last edited by niterida; 11th March 2012 at 02:48 AM.

  21. #91
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Well I have given up - I just cannot get these brackets to fit no matter what I do - its just too hard for me given that I have no experience doing this sort of thing so its off to the scrap heap................................

  22. #92
    Ginga Ninja JoshG's Avatar
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    Nooooo!!! Ken don't give up on it! surely someone can fab something up for you that will sort the issue?
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  23. #93
    Large member banshee's Avatar
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    What RSWagz said.
    Get a few fresh faces in to have a look and throw around a some ideas. Might find a solution from a different view point.
    CURRENT CARS :1993 RS LIBERTY TURBO WAGON,1990 RS LEGACY TURBO SEDAN,1992 GT LEGACY TURBO SEDAN, 1991 SKI FX TURBO SEDAN, 1989 RS LEGACY TURBO SEDAN, 2001 GDB WRX STI and the mighty 1993 DIAHATSU CHARADE

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  24. #94
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Oh dear it appears I lost my internet connection before I could finish. What I was going to say was :

    Quote Originally Posted by niterida View Post
    Well I have given up ON THE BRACKETS - I just cannot get these brackets to fit no matter what I do - its just too hard for me given that I have no experience doing this sort of thing so its off to the scrap heap................................FOR THESE BRACKETS
    They just weren't going to work so I decided to try it a different way and just butt weld the inside edge of the bracket to the firewall. They will be strengthened later with a plate across the join.

    SUCCESS :







    Welding looks like crap but it is just the flash showing up every tiny imperfection. It will obviously be finished off properly and will look like it came that way from the factory.

    I even put the chassis rails in position, bolted up the crossmember and lower control arms, threw the hubs, strut brace and coilovers on and bugger me it all fits !! Forgot to take photos of that though

    Unfortunately I now have to go to Christmas Island with work for 4 weeks so nothing will be done for a while but stay tuned.

  25. #95

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    At least the fishing is good up there so 4 weeks won't be too bad!

  26. #96
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Yeah pity I don't fish. Hopefully get a dive or 2 in though. And come back to a nice fat pay packet

  27. #97
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Well I found out today that the rotary won't fit :-(
    will have to revert to a boring old turbo subie motor

  28. #98
    Large member MMANGO's Avatar
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    I find it odd that it won't fit? aren't they the smallest motor known to man?
    death, taxes, boost

  29. #99
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Yeah thats what I thought so I never really bothered measuring anything before I decided to do this. The block itself is about the same length as a EJ motor but once you add the timing cover, water pump and pulleys its about 150mm longer, add the 10mm or so for the adapter plate and the front of the engine touches the radiator support panel.

    Its no big deal - just means I will have to run a 2.5 STi motor

  30. #100
    Large member Blackout's Avatar
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    Niterida, There was a bloke on Ausubaru who did this conversion into a 2door coupe.

    Here is the link for the car's thread maybe you can sus out the conversion for yourself
    http://www.ausubaru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1015

    Edit: Just realised that thread is completely useless. Possible you could contact the guy and ask him how he went about it.

  31. #101
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
    Niterida, There was a bloke on Ausubaru who did this conversion into a 2door coupe.

    Here is the link for the car's thread maybe you can sus out the conversion for yourself
    http://www.ausubaru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1015

    Edit: Just realised that thread is completely useless. Possible you could contact the guy and ask him how he went about it.
    Yeah 've been in touch with him before - he hasn't replied to any of my latest emails though :-(

    Thanks anyway.

  32. #102
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Well its not looking good. The Rotor is 465mm long once you include the gearbox adapter and remove the PS and Air Cond pumps, AND run an Electric Water Pump to get rid of bulky inlets and outlets. I have 500mm from the gearbox to the radiator support panel so that only leaves 35mm to mount a radiator

    I calculated that at most I could move the gearbox back 25-30mm so I could possibly squeeze a radiator in but would then need to mount the fans in front. But then where would I put the Front Mount Intercooler ??

    Also the crossmember isn't really being cooperative and would need major reworking to move the motor back another 50mm. As it is the engine mounts are going to be a pain in the butt without making it more difficult moving the engine back.

    Now the Subie motor is only 410mm long including all the front pulleys, leaving a good 90mm for a radiator and fans - which is still a bit tight though. Of course that means I don't have to modify the crossmember or make custom engine mounts etc.

    So given my limited fabrication skills I would have to say that the rotary idea is just a bridge too far

    Of course the fact that I have just bought myself a Liberty RS Turbo wagon has swayed the decision too. I can put all my good bits on the wagon - DCCD gearbox, Brembos, 18's, coilovers, swaybars etc and I still have an EJ22 / 5 speed, 16's, 4 pots etc to go in the Brumby and then maybe in the future when funds are available I can upgrade to STi motor etc for the Brumby. AT least doing it this way keeps the cost and the build time way down.

  33. #103
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    No way! Keep that RS stock!

    Good bits for brumby

  34. #104
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    I have made a small breakthrough

    Bolted all the suspension and crossmembers on to the chassis rails and placed the body over the chassis. Now everything looks like it is in the right place until I put a wheel and front guard on only to discover everything is at least 50mm too far forward !!

    So I need to move the engine crossmember mounting points back by 50mm on the chassis and I may be able to squeeze the rotor in after all

    But that also means I need a new floor because the WRX one I was going to use is now going to be 50mm too short at the front

  35. #105
    Senior Member niterida's Avatar
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    Small update !!

    Decided rotary motor was too much hassle and has been sold (at a small profit )

    So tack welded the chassis rails on. Put an EJ22 engine and gearbox on the crossmembers, added a front hub, coilover and wheel (with 215/60/16 Outback sized tyre!!) and dropped the body over once again.
    Bugger me if it didn't fit perfectly using the exisitng crossmember mounting holes on the Brumby chassis. Wheel sits perfectly central and the WRX floor is OK to use as well. Woohoo










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