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Thread: EJ22 code 13 and 31, really weird

  1. #1
    Large member seanoz's Avatar
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    Default EJ22 code 13 and 31, really weird

    Well I started to think this was some"geographical" gremlin, every time I went up this hill near my mum's, the car would start to cut down, break down, lose power and timing, then this issue became more frequent on more hills, it was weird though when I could go the back way, that still had a serious hill, but no issue, go figure! Well it did have a bit of a dip, so always had more momentum.

    Anyway, the only codes were 13 and 31, the 13 seemed obvious, so I got some new sensors, the TPS and a cam angle sensor, for those who don't know, 13 is cam sensor 31 is the throttle position sensor.

    But the bastard is doing it again, same hill, same spot. This time it got so bad had to stop.

    Now, while I assume there is some issue with this loom, is it possible that the cam itself may be providing poor signal? Also, I have no knowledge of when this car had it's timing belt done, it's at 240I, could an aging belt and a shot tensioner be causing the timing to go out slightly? (due to load on hills?) I mean I can't understand how this only occurs on hills.


    Any one can help, much appreciated guys.

    Sean.
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    Had a similar issue with dads EJ22, no solution. I had a code 13 but it didn't return after I cleared it and no idea how long ago the ecu was last reset. I found evidence of arc'ing on the coilpack so replacing that is my next step.
    Quote Originally Posted by dja
    im not a doctor
    Mr. Miyagi didn't teach the Karate Kid to believe in himself. He taught him how to kick people in the fucking head.

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    Large member seanoz's Avatar
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    So yods,, how did you reset? Do I jyst disconnect battery and turn the key?

    You changed cam sensor too to no avail?

    Sean
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    Getting there AlpineRaven's Avatar
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    Have you checked the ignition module and ignition area?

    Is it automatic?
    Cheers
    AP
    Owns: 95 Liberty GX Sedan "Rallye" AWD *written off 25/8/06
    1996 Liberty GX Wagon Ski FX AWD 5MT D/R sold Nov 2011 at 380,000kms
    2007 Gen 4 Liberty 2.5i Wagon

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    Advanced n00b GrandFraganator's Avatar
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    I had the same problem with my gx gen 1, lost power up only some hills, would start missing and then eventually come to a stop, turn the ignition off for about 20 seconds and then it's right to go. In m case I put the stock air box back on it and it seemed to sort its self out after a while.
    At work we had a gen 2 gx come in with the same problems, replaced the afm (I think it was a bit over $200) and bingo
    Now I think about it while it did the same symptoms as yours it through a o2 code and a TPS I think, maybe also a afm code, can't quite remember.
    Maybe this is useful to you, mayb not.
    1992 Subaru AWD Liberty GX Station Wagon

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    Large member seanoz's Avatar
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    I did do the AM recently, I have the stock airbox, so it may or may not be the AFM, but thanks for that, anything is posible atm, what I do recall now, after what yods pointed out, is I had a Cressida that had similar issues and it was it;s coil, so I will look at the spark strenght and see if anything is out of the ordinary, I see no evidence of arcing, but nitether did I on the Cressida.

    As to the ignition, I am not sure what to look for, it is an Auto, and fucking autos! I had pulled over so fast I whacked it into P just before it came to a full stop, (typically as you do in a manual - going to first) it was very slow, and made a couple of clicks, and then later threw a Code 23 in the TCU, (engine revolutions sensor) I cleared the battery and it cleared the TCU, but I have left it overnight to clear the ECU, because it may have remained in limp mode even after changing the TPS and Cam sensors, either way, if the codes are clear, and the issues remain, I will change the coil and see what happens. Tossing up to get one at a wrecker or new.

    Sean.
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    I never changed the sensors because the codes didn't return after the reset. Reset procedure i just googled for, connecting both connectors, then drive around for a bit (it's on here).

    I don't think AFM has been changed in Dad's car either which would match some of the symptoms, car is dead stock
    Quote Originally Posted by dja
    im not a doctor
    Mr. Miyagi didn't teach the Karate Kid to believe in himself. He taught him how to kick people in the fucking head.

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    Large member seanoz's Avatar
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    I did a reset with battery off, and the codes are gone, I got a used coil, it seems to be fixed, but I am reluctant to drive up that part! At least not when it is night or busy, it is a really bad spott to breakdown, and get stuck at.

    This too is dead stock, maybe it was a coil issue, time will tell, looking at the existing coil it had some breakdown of the sealant on one of the coils, and if that was the issue, it certainly ran smoother after the new one went on.

    Thanks guys.

    Sean.
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    RSLC Wh0re BIG POSTER Rob's Avatar
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    This isn't that silly lifter pump-up issue is it?
    throwing TPS codes as you've got the throttle mashed but no power/ rpm increase?

    just another thought.

    I'd search the threads for you but you might have to use google to search the site
    Quote Originally Posted by rec01l
    Northern hemisphere engines rotated in the opposite direction, legacys included.
    This means they require an anti-timing belt and a different orientation on the water pump polariser

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    Large member seanoz's Avatar
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    Wow Rob, I think you might be onto something.

    After today, I changed the coil, and all was looking very good, then tonight I drove it, and noticed an issue on a small hill, even though it was mild I started to become VERY deflated, it was beating me. I even started to pretend to think it was my imagination.

    Then later, it seemed fine, but it got to another hill, a very steep large hill, and as I got over it, I heard alot of really bad pinging type sounds, but not really pinging, a flickering and ticking, and then it went real bad, and broke down in a similar manner, I got over, it all was fine by the time I coasted to the bottom, and the rest of the way home, it was not like the miss I had before, there was a less "electrical" feel to the car breaking down in power, and then it came right, so considering everything at that point (changed coil, sensors etc.) I just thought I better change the timing belt, the accessories belts, and hope that it will come good.

    Then I get here about to go to bed, I read this, I think you are a genius, I don't know much about tappets, but I do know that while this thing is not noisy, it may just be what is wrong, I will search the site, but is there a more specific search term to use? 352 threads appear with "lifter pump up" I tried "pump-up" and "pump up" as exact terms, nothing changes, so many threads with fuel "pump" and so forth.

    Also, after all this, there are no engine codes, and it is running better, so if it was in limp mode, that has most likely gone off, I certainly think I was getting or generating the issue when the A/C was on too. When the A/C was off, the car seemed to run much better, but that is to be expected.

    I will do a flush and clean and change the oil, I have been putting 20-50 in this, should I try a different weight? Or will I have to do all the lifters if they are the issue?

    If a valve stuck, then I am assuming I already have bent a valve or two in this, but it does not run like that, but then again, it may have a bad cylinder, a compression check would certainly indicate that I guess.

    Sean.
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    Large member seanoz's Avatar
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    Took it out this morning and from cold on the hill outside my driveway it showed a CEL and yet it was not misbehaving, as the journey went on, it did not and still has not had the same kind of breakdown in power etc. it had before the exchange coil, but it did seem to run rough on hills etc.

    When I got back, checked and it's code 31. Now Nathan pointed out that I have to get that exchanged TPS to 4.5V at idle, so I will do that today, but after reading Rob's post, I am concluding that I will probly have to do the lifters when I do the timing belt and water pump.

    Sean.
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    Sultan of Swap BIG POSTER Deefa's Avatar
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    Had the same issue with our auto wagon.

    No codes just loses power going up long hills..................sometimes. Seems also to be linked to how much right boot is applied.

    We run 10W30 in it now and it only exhibits this trait when the oil is about 3000 km old.

    So I change it more regularly and it seems to keep it at bay.

    I'd flush the engine and change to 10W30!

    BTW, the EJ22 is a non interference engine so no bent valves!
    1994 AUSDM RS Turbo Wagon
    EJ20G, VF29, 380cc injectors, stock heads, Stock RS ecu with 9 psi Vos chip, WAIC and upgraded inlet and zorst.

  13. #13
    Large member seanoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deefa View Post
    I'd flush the engine and change to 10W30!

    BTW, the EJ22 is a non interference engine so no bent valves!
    Awesome, thanks deefa, in the meantime I added some Wynns lifter treatment, and I have to say driving it again it seems to be very good, I bloody filled it with 91 last night so it pinged a little on my mum's hill, but other than that fingers crossed and when I do that timing gear I will go for the 10W30

    I was about to ask if the EJ22 was an interference type, thanks for that, what a load off! At the very least then it has been the sounds of a sticky valve and chatter of the lifter being stuck I guess.

    Sean.
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    Large member seanoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deefa View Post
    Seems also to be linked to how much right boot is applied.
    That too is very true, maybe a good run up charges the lifters, but on a longer incline without some momentum - not to mention the fact the motor itself becomes inclined - then any pesky lifters loose pressure etc? I dunno, it's what we get with the old girls.

    At least my maintenace bill is less than the payments on something nice that would just be wrecked by my 3 young kids anyway!

    Sean.
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    Large member seanoz's Avatar
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    Well, the wynns seems to have solved the lifter issue, not perfect, but oil change next weekend with 10W30 should improve it.

    But I am stumped with this TPS setup, can anyone help me? In the manual it said the terminals are 1,2,3 and 4 going down, 4 being black, brown is 1 right? but it says that 2 is the terminal that has the V through the range - 4.7V closed and 0.9V open.

    It is not working like that, and what is weird is as I spin the throttle a buzz is coming from somewhere, sounds like a relay, and it actually souunds like it is coming from the gearbox, now, I don't think there is a code in the box, but it did have a 23, engine rev sensor before I reset with neg off , but is that normal behaviour? The buzz?

    When driving it is occasionally cutting out momentarily and sometimes it's like it hunts for a gear, also momentarily.

    Sean
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    Large member Mr Milkman's Avatar
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    Hey, did you ever solve this completely? I had an auto gen 1 GX that was doing the same thing, cutting out going up a massive hill. I eventually swapped in another alternator and it was all good then.

  17. #17
    Large member seanoz's Avatar
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    Wow, that is interesting, but mine is not cutting out as such, but "breaking down", it splutters and carrys on like a pig, and eventually it clears it's head and drives on.

    So, no, not solved, but also not a major pain, because the car is used mostly for a commute that is the same each time, we know where and when it would occur, and can address it, but at this stage we are pretty sure it is lifter pump up, so I am going to change the oil soon and try it with some 10W-30, as Deefa suggests. Also doing waterpump, new belts, and timing belt etc. so will see what effect that has on it too.

    Sean.
    Favourite quote:
    Kezza: handling mods > power mods

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